If you are already way into social networking you can skip this article completely. This is strictly for those who aren’t already converts to the new religion. There are so many social networking sites now and so many different ways to be in constant touch with everyone it might seem confusing. Relax. I am going to make it easy for you.
1. If you are doing it and like it, keep right on doing it.
2. If you are not doing it and are wanting to learn about "getting business from social networking", step two is just as simple as step one. Skip it.
Skip it completely. All of it. It is just that simple. If you are even thinking of taking a class so you can "learn about it", skip the class and skip learning about it. Somebody says they’re an expert and wants to explain it to you, get up and walk away. It has already become a part of your life and it is important to you or it isn’t.
Just as an aside, I will point out that there is no top producer – anywhere in the United States (that I know about) that is actually getting their business from Twittering, Facing, My Spacing, Poking or any of the other brand-new and utterly fantastic great ways to be in non-stop touch. None. I know, I know, it eventually will be the thing to do. If your actions today are mainly to get you ready for that brand-new tomorrow then freak freely.
Why is social networking so popular?
Because, for some, it is fun. Lots of it. In order to not feel guilty about goofing off, it then becomes necessary to rationalize that fun by figuring out how what one is doing is really "good for business". People who like to play golf or tennis do this all the time. Playing golf is good for business. Be in business and connect with anyone often enough and you can get business from doing that thing. But is there any valid reason to trick oneself? You do it, you like it and want to keep doing it. By itself, that is a perfectly valid reason for doing just about anything that isn’t harmful.
From the 2008 NAR Profile of Home Buyers and Sellers:
Naturally, the percentage of sellers (far far more important demographic, in my opinion) wouldn’t be as good as the percent of buyers using social networking sites. If the public you are wanting to reach is first-time buyers it might have validity to spend time following, tweeting and poking. If first-time buyers aren’t your main public it looks to me like an odd thing to work on at all.
In answer to the question I just know I am going to get: yes, I am expecting to make a lot of new friends with this particular post. 🙂
Jim Gatos
March 11, 2009 at 5:38 am
I totally agree, and understand, Russell..
For ALL my efforts with “combined” social networking; i.e.; blogging in MULTIPLE locations, I went on ONE listing appointment, have 4 “maybe” people signed up on buyer searches, and that’s pretty much it. Activerain’s referral network seems to be the only thing that’s the MOST effective. I keep wondering, is this really ALL worth it? The Top Producers in my area DON’T seem to have the time to play with Facebook, Twitter, etc, etc, etc.,as much as some others. Me? Well, the busier I get, the easier it is to say to myself; “I’ll check it tomorrow..”…
Nashville Grant
March 12, 2010 at 10:40 pm
I have found AR referrals to be mostly bogus lead gen companies. To speak to your question, it could all be worth is, but it’s too early to tell. Although, I have found that many agents are ignoring traditional method in favor of this new fangled social media thang and that has opened the door for those of us who still take advantage of those modes.
Lisa Sanderson
March 11, 2009 at 8:21 am
I fall in to #1 group. Thank you, Russell, for helping to keep the competition away. Might as well stay away, y’all…it’s a big waste of time 😉
Jim Gatos
March 11, 2009 at 9:33 am
I just can’t get straight answers…LOL
Blogging to me seems like another form of “marketing”.. you have to do a LOT of it to get something back, unless you find a niche or a trick.. Then the numbers may improve.
However, in prospecting, you get a yes or no answer immediately… Hitting on your SOI for referrals seems to be the way to go now..
Then we get all these “smug” folks out there, who act like they have a “Highly classified” secret” when it comes to social networking and blogging.. but they either do so little in terms of actual business (which to me, is “closings”) or for the amount of business done you’re better off joining Floyd Wickman’s StarMakers or Howard Brinton’s Star Power.
Now, don’t get me wrong.. I blog, but I do it as an alternative to a boring canned newsletter for my SOI. I have to use that reasoning, otherwise I would have to say the heck with it, I’d be better off meeting new people at BNI.
Is blogging or social networking predictable? Will I feel comfortable knowing I will get 30 sales yearly if I blog x amount of articles yearly? Monthly? Weekly?
I’m serious. I think my question’s valid.
No use acting all “smug” and defensive about something that may not work, or work EFFECTIVELY…
I don’t see the value of getting a lot of “hits” when no money is coming in. I can get a lot of “hits” on a website or even a blog by starting a Porn site. It doesn’t mean I would.. LOL..
Lisa Sanderson
March 11, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Dude, lighten up!
There are a million tools out there and only you can determine what works for you, based on your market, your style, your talents. Nobody’s claiming this is a magic bullet. If it doesn’t work for you, fine. But don’t hold it against me if I choose to use it and smile about it. A sense of humor and a positive outlook do not a smug one make 😉
Figuring out ROI is tough. Jeff Turner said something brilliant at REBCNY to address this question. He said ‘How do you calculate the ROI of going to Kiwanis meetings or participating in PTA or anything else you do to network out there in your market?’ Should you stop doing those things because you can’t quantify the result? My answer is no.
Jim Gatos
March 11, 2009 at 12:46 pm
You’re right Lisa, I think your “smug”… LOL.
Kidding around here, but let me ask you, since blogging and social networking is obviously a success for you.
Russell said “Just as an aside, I will point out that there is no top producer – anywhere in the United States (that I know about) that is actually getting their business from Twittering, Facing, My Spacing, Poking or any of the other brand-new and utterly fantastic great ways to be in non-stop touch. None.”
Are YOU the exception?
Is anyone? I’d sincerely like to know.. When you prospect, or effectively market, at least, you have at least SOME hope that you’ll be able to predict your numbers. The Top Producers ALL say they can do this, predict their numbers with REASONABLE certainty. Can you, or anyone, ANYONE, do this with blogging, social networking, etc?
If someone can, the validity of this medium will shoot sky high!
BTW, face to face networking invariably will work eventually due to the fact you are “face to face” with people. It’s a no miss…
I want to hear from ONE, just ONE, Top Producer, who can say they can pay their bills with blogging and social networking.
Time and effort cost money too.
Barry Cunningham
March 11, 2009 at 4:52 pm
What’s a top producer? Not someone who has 20 or 30 or 40 agents under him or on his team…I’d like to know what defines a top producer?
Is Craig Proctor considered a top producer? Is Ruth Pugh a top producer?
By the way…since I am in marketing. All of there new fangled measures of social media are about networking and spreading the word and driving business…I think we would all agree.
Is it much different than buying billboards and newspaper ads, and bus benches and television commercials?
Oh yeah it is…you reach a much more targeted consumer at a fraction of the cost.
So does spending 20k per month on advertising to drive X number of prospects to call or act much different than having a viral video or working on networking with thousands of people who actually want to hear what you have to say?
I like to look at marketing in two ways. As Seth Godin said, uou either have Interruptive Marketing, which is based on commerical messaging, or you have Permission based marketing which means the prospect actually ASKS you and GIVES you permission to market to them.
Which is a better prospect is somewhat dependent upon the person and the message. The medium however is not suspect.
It’s easy to be all over tv. You write a check and it’s done.
I wonder how many top producers , that if they had the ability to market with the opportunities available right now would have chosen this route instead of the cash investment of an advertising campaign that is really not all that measurable.
By the way…anyone catch the recent news about the Seattle PI or Miami Herald?
A lot of the methods of marketing that the “top producers” of yesteryear have relied upon are slowly going away.
But there’s always the $300.00 television spot…for some.
Lastly, I find it odd that on a blog with so many technophiles that Lisa was the ONLY one who spoke out on this post…hmmm…has to make you wonder.
Where are the founders and advisors of the Social Media Marketing Institute to defend their mission and it’s virtue?
Jim Gatos
March 11, 2009 at 5:36 pm
I wanted to add one more thing, and I don’t mean to be “snotty” about it. Jeff Turner seems like a nice guy. I may even use his service, but was he ever, ever, ever a real estate agent?
Ever?
Lisa Sanderson
March 11, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Jim: I can’t pay my bills, with social media or without. There, I said it…are you happy? (I think I may have broken some golden rule by admitting that publicly)
I will tell you, though, that I am busier working inquiries than anyone I know, despite the slow market. Others are signing up for more opportunity time or working at the new casino up the road while things are slow. But I am filling my pipeline, preparing for when buyers start to actually buy again…when I’ll have to refer out business, guaranteed. All generated by my blog. Sorry, I don’t track the numbers. Perhaps I should but that’s not my thing.
(Just as a side note, I do a lot of listing business in my community which I farm pretty much the old fashioned way, print advertising, mail, flyers, community participation & networking. Although recently my neighbors are signing up on Facebook every day and now I can keep a lot of them posted about the market and communicate with them *much* more often, faster, cheaper. And this interaction inevitably fuels conversation IRL when we are at functions.)
You sound a little bitter, Jim, and I am trying to figure out why. If this stuff isn’t working for you, why are you here and why do you care if other people ‘think’ it works for them? What’s your beef?
I am not here to argue that everyone should do what I do. You should find what works for you, in your market, for your target audience, and work it regardless of what everyone else is doing.
Jim Gatos
March 11, 2009 at 6:30 pm
There’s no reason to get mad. I’m trying to OBJECTIVELY determine if there is any value to social media for real estate agents. Too many people with something to sell seem to “clog” the opinion boards, and I want to hear of verifiable truth, not theories or what “what will work” but isn’t working now.. Nothing wrong with planting seeds as long as you plant seeds that will do something, not dry dead wheat…
I’m not bitter, sounds a little bit maybe you may be, without wanting to admit it. My market area is NOT slow neither are buyers not presently buying. What I’m doing is trying to separate myth from reality. It isn’t a matter of it working or not (which it isn’t for me, btw). It’s a matter of trying to determine why anyone should waste time and effort on unproductive activities.
Blame Russell, he started the whole thing LOL..
Bob
March 11, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Barry, cant express how thrilled I am to engage this where the topic isn’t about property, but marketing!
Only if you know what you are doing.
The problem I see with most of the marketing and SEO advice in the real estate space is that it is usually given in a vacuum. The result is that you have people with no idea why or if something doesn’t work. The single biggest difference with the mega producer and the rest is that if they cant quantify and understand the results, they DONT DO IT.
Warren Buffett, the ultimate mega producer, was once asked why he didnt invest in certain businesses. He answered that he didnt understand either how they made money so he didnt know how to value them, or that he didnt understand what they would be doing in 10 years. His investment of @ $50 mil in See’s Candies was laughed at, but he understood that they had a loyal customer base and a predictable 2% annual growth. Fast forward and that investment in what he understood returned $1.6 billion.
“Go West Young Man”
OK, but why? Because everyone else is?
I believe that is what Jim is asking. Not only why, but how.
Anyone Have a Map?
I know Barry does. I have one, and Lani most certainly has one. The question is “a map to where”? My blogging map resulted in several closed short sale listings, but with less posts written in 12 months than many here write in a week.
SM is the latest thing. It has no track record. Would warren base his biz on it? Not unless someone can help him understand how it will make him money.
I’m pretty sure Jim is emulating Warren Buffett here and wants to understand how it makes money, not just that it can.
Barry, care to share a tip or two about how you are able to specifically target your market for profit?
Brian Block
March 11, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Okay, I’m happy to chime in here. Though I don’t by any stretch consider myself nor expect that others currently consider me as a “top producer,” I’m making a respectable and certainly above average income through real estate.
That being said, I participate to small extent in social networking. I see it as small as compared to the many others that I see who are constantly online on Facebook, Twitter, et al. Others who don’t participate at all may see even my small participation level as extensive.
I can’t equate much, if any, business to social networking (aside from one outgoing referral fee on Active Rain).
However, in the case of online activity for real estate, there is one thing that I’ve found that does indeed work — and that is BLOGGING. Last year alone, I can directly track over $85K in GCI to my blog — and an additional $5K+ in other blog related income. While not all of my real estate income for the year, it was a sizable portion.
Social networking — if you’re social and like it, keep doing it, as you write. If not, don’t fear that you’re missing the entire boat.
Either way, you should get on board with blogging.
Barry Cunningham
March 11, 2009 at 11:08 pm
@ Bob…simple. I told you above. Permission based marketing activities. We set bait all across the Internet fishing where the fish are.
1. PPC to capture to drip
2. Opt-In’s to capture to drip
3. Targeted Keyworded Blog posts on a number of blogs designed to attract big game
4. Press Releases
5. Article Marketing
6. We even troll active Rain…hey..it’s free
7. LinkedIn
8. Syndicated Video
9. Free Report Distribution
10.Obviously radio show episodes
11.Investment clubs
12.Customized IDX linked to buyer drawing blog posts with targeted keywords
13.Multiple Twitter Accounts
14. Heavy Use of Digg, Delicious..etc..
15. Free Webinars
16. Bank referrals (keep this one quiet)
17. Many agents who can’t move property
18. Offering Hard Money and Transactional funding
19. Craigslist / backpage..etc
20. commenting on blogs like this and others so people see we know what the heck we’re talking about and not always kissing the rear end of some agent and actually creating engaging conversation
You’d be amazed at how many emails I get from people who have read a comment here or there who say…I like what I read..I like what you said…why did that guy get broken down to the point that he called you a turd…
I could go on and on but I think you get the point. People contact us based upon the voluminous bait we have online and give us permission to market to them…then the single biggest factor is knowing how, when, and what to market to them.
By the way..all of this is automated and we spend less than 6-8 hours on our real estate related businesses.
Missy Caulk
March 12, 2009 at 7:07 am
Blogging makes my phone ring and I have made money from it the last 2 years since I started.
In my opinion a lot.
Starting to get business from Facebook, but nothing from Twitter yet.
But, meeting folks and had a great article in Ann Arbor Business Review on it.
I have been teaching on it around the state and like other things some sign up and grow and others it goes in one ear and out the next.
Jay Thompson
March 12, 2009 at 11:39 am
Hmmm… I’ll freely admit that I am not a “Top Producer”. I do OK, but I’m certainly not in the same league as a Russell Shaw.
So what?
I’m not in this business to be a “top producer” (and for the record, I despise that label, even though I really have no idea what it means). I’m in this business to earn a decent living and provide for my family. And that’s happening.
My clients (of which the overwhelming majority come from “social media” prospecting) don’t care if I am a “top producer”, a “bazillion dollar producer” or “THE #1 AGENT IN PHOENIX!” they care if I sell their home or help them buy a home. Period.
We sell many homes to Canadians. I’ll put my blog up as a prospecting tool for Canadian buyers against ANY other method. I get clients from blog posts I wrote almost four years ago. I would love for someone to produce a post card or other piece of direct mail that they sent four years ago that makes the phone ring today.
Clearly social media/blogging/Twittering/Web 2.0/whatever is not for every one. Will it make me a “Top Producer”? Beats me, nor do I care as that’s not my personal goal.
Will it make me enough to reasonably provide for my family? Yep, so far so good.
Barry Cunningham
March 12, 2009 at 11:43 am
Just when i was about to write Jay Thompson off he goes and agrees with me.
Guess ya never know!
jay thompson
March 12, 2009 at 1:59 pm
@barry – part of my job description includes lobbing you the occasional curve ball. 😉
We’ve both said it before, maybe we just don’t want to admit it — we agree more often than we disagree.
Mark Madsen
March 12, 2009 at 3:42 pm
I’ve wasted thousands of dollars and hours with social networking. Or, as I like to tell my wife, I’ve gained a very valuable and expensive education about what not to do online.
I can say that our real estate site is responsible for 90% of the team’s annual sales volume, and my current mortgage business marketing model is based on blogging.
Keep in mind though, everything we do revolves around SEO/SEM strategies vs. networking.
I use social networks for the purpose of building links or collaborating with other high traffic site owners who share my vision for the future of online marketing.
Education, thought leadership, positioning, database management, social news broadcasting (@pkitano)…. these are some of the benefits from social networking that I do believe in.
However, we have a long-tail marketing approach that focuses on producing valuable “targeted” content for a specific audience while they are in the buying phase. *Thank you Seth Godin*
Instead of worrying about developing my current business from referrals or networking, I’m producing content that builds perpetual equity in the SERPs over time.
I’ve heard of several facebook success stories, which is great news for my agenda.
Since there are only 10 spots on page one of Google, I like to encourage my competitors to invest all of their time bumping around social networks trolling for leads so that I can focus on growing my own sites in the search engines.
I know that people tend to do business with people they know, like and trust. But, I also believe that easy to find valuable information can win clients as well.
Basically, I’m planning for the day when I just don’t feel like being social anymore.
Tony Sena
March 12, 2009 at 9:52 pm
I still haven’t seen a definition of a “top producer”?
Like Jay, I make a decent living from my web presence and it can be attributed to social media marketing. I launched my first Las Vegas Real Estate website in 2001 and have seen a steady increase in income ever since. I launched my real estate blog on my site in early 2008 and I have seen an even greater increase in traffic and an increase in closings. Can I attribute the increase in closings to the blog, probably, as traffic grows, leads increase and subsequently we have more closings.
If you know what you are doing, it can be very successful and rewarding!
John Wake
March 13, 2009 at 2:15 am
(I don’t consider blogging to be part of social media but maybe that definition is idiosyncratic.)
Anyway, I don’t think anyone has cracked the code on generating business via blogging or social media.
In the end, it may be like learning to successfully generate leads from radio ads, that is, that the first agent to crack the code will create a dominate, first-mover position in the market.
Or blogging and/or social media could end up being like the old “Homes” magazines, an important source of leads for a few hundred agents in Phoenix.
At worst, it looks like blogging will be like the old “Homes” magazines but with fewer agents benefiting. (There appears to be, however, a significant first-mover advantage with real estate blogs.)
Social media is still unproven – at least to me – but that doesn’t mean that someone won’t eventually crack the code.
On the other hand, I’m not holding my breath.
Dru Bloomfield
March 13, 2009 at 5:46 am
Russell,
You should know that this post has generated side bar conversations. The face-to-face kind.
One of the points that came up in a couple of these conversation was that any Gen X/Y Realtor needs to seriously consider online social network as part of their marketing mix. They are there anyway – it’s where they grew up. It’s where their future client base is and will be.
Some of us who are older may be less comfortable with this kind of relationship building, but in fact, that is what is happening. I watched Amy Cherow and Phil Sexton greet other like old friends yesterday. They had never met in person before, but they immediately jumped into a prior Twitter conversation about skiing that went on and on.
I think that we can talk about marketing and SEO and producing, but ultimately what these on-line tools are doing is building relationships. In this fast-paced world, we are all looking for instant gratification or proof that our efforts are working.
That being said, social networking isn’t for everyone, just like TV or direct mail don’t fit for others.
My humble opinion is that agents must market in a way that’s enjoyable and productive individually, since these actions must be repeated over and over to achieve their personal goals.
Barry Cunningham
March 13, 2009 at 7:46 am
@ John Wake who wrote…”I don’t think anyone has cracked the code on generating business via blogging ”
Our business is marketed 100% online. (see above)If we were stupid enough to tell Realtor.com our income, I think we would qualify for “top producer” status (again…whatever that is)….
Here’s maybe why you are’nt seeing the results from your blog:
If the sitemeter numbers that are shown on your blog are correct, you are bringing in about 450 visitors per day. Not bad..not great..but not bad.
But how are you capturing those visitors? A lot of realtors ask us how we generate so many buyer’s from our visitors. Well On every single page, on every single blog we have a large opt-in form enticing them to give us their information.
When i say entice….I mean we offer somethiong of value, for free…that we give in exchange for their information. Works wonders…
Secondly, are your posts about topics that buyers are actually looking for? We don’t guess…we know what buyer’s are searching for and when we take the data that they are searching for we made sure we seeded our blog with those topics and they feed us hundreds of prospects per week.
Do you know for sure whether or not you are writing the articles that buyers want? it’s pretty easy to find out. At first glance, it would appear not.
I could go on and on but you hopefully see my point. When people say that blogging doesn’t work or this doesn’t work, one has to look first at themselves and wonder if they are the ones who aren’t working it.
For instance, here’s one thing that buyers REALLY want right now. DEALS!!!
You are in a foreclosure laden area…yet..when I search the power terms regarding foreclosure in your area, you don’t show up at all in the SERP’s.
You did have one story I noticed under “Phoenix Short Sale” but it was like # 19 (meaning no one will see it),it had no diggs or social bookmarks of any kind and ZERO backlinks.
Then I read the article and almost threw up. The first sentence reads EXACTLY as follows: “I don’t do short sales”.
Dude…it’s your decision but an agent not being proficient in short sales these days is sort of like a baseball pitcher not having a fastball!
If you want the fish to bite, you have to put bait on your pole. Otherwise your just out in the ocean getting a tan. Not a bad way to spend an afternoon…but it won’t make you any money.
Before you say something doesn’t work…you should at minimum know how it does work, have tried it in earnest and then adjusted and tried it some more.
John Wake
March 13, 2009 at 3:06 pm
As I recently told the commenters on my blog, “If you think someone is crazy, the traditional response is to ignore them.”
Barry Cunningham
March 13, 2009 at 3:10 pm
” John wrote…As I recently told the commenters on my blog, “If you think someone is crazy, the traditional response is to ignore them.”
Man…why is it that so many people don’t want to be confused by fact…oh well..whatever…
Lani and crew you have your work cut out for you with the SMMI!
Matthew Hardy
March 13, 2009 at 7:52 pm
The solution in understanding the relationship between social media and business, is that social media sites were built for teenagers and college students. These adopters did not want to be involved with something that “smacked” of business; these sites were built to enhance and extend their user’s social position. Businesspeople, however, asked the salient question: how to I make money using it? Unfortunately, some SM gurus lambast this question.
Social media has been designed to work exactly because there is less commitment between the parties for further interaction; this being compared to face-to-face (vis-a-vis) or telephone encounters. I like the word “encounters”; a unit for medical billing. If one end of the spectrum of what you could call an encounter is inserting things into your body, the other may be employing social media. A conundrum occurs, however, in attempting to have it both ways: where people who are making real money (Google, all SM sites and services, et al) press the rule that “overt” business is not allowed. In a crude illustration, it’s like a pimp who sets the whole thaang up, but there’s no sex. There are bux being made, but some are feelin’ unsatisfied, you feel me? 😉
Paula Henry
March 25, 2009 at 10:32 am
Russell – I am AMAZED at the amount of social media experts who have crawled out of the woodwork. I agree, you either like it and do it or not.
Eric Mieles
September 9, 2010 at 12:31 pm
@Jim I have to say I think the reason why you’re struggling with whether or not Social Media makes sense and drives results is because you’re looking at it all wrong. Social Media allows you to from stronger relationships that will lead to more trust, credibility and more BUSINESS. It’s just a tool that enables you to be a trusted leader in your SOI by providing relevant content on a more consistent basis.
You made a comment that “You could go network at your local BNI”. At BNI you’re interacting and being SOCIAL in order to build trust, meet new people and gain NEW BUISNESS.
It’s still amazes me how so many in our profession are so STUCK in their ways. The first few posts including the Author of this post seem to have adopt the mentality “That’s what I’ve done for X amount of years and that’s what will work”. Change is scary to many and our industry is the WORST at implementing change and innovation.
There is a big cloud in our profession of Realtors who go to “BNI” meeting, or social functions and throw their business cards around like ninja stars. You can continue to be that creepy SALES person always looking for what’s best FOR YOU because you seem to talk to every person who’s THREE FEET away from you but times are changing and YOU will get left behind.
Social Media just allows you to be the credible source of information when used correctly and continue to build more meaningful relationships. Why would anybody not want to or see how powerful it is to talk to or communicate with their SOI all day every day. If you’re on FB and you indirectly talk about and post “The Life of a Realtor”. Maybe you post things about how busy you are or what a day you had or you blog everyday and link it back to a great fan page so that friends, family know about what you do and how you do it. No that doesn’t have an indirect ROI but neither does throwing my cards around a party or buying a park bench. How about the crappy 30sec ad you would gladly pay thousands of dollars for because you believe you will get eyeballs. How about the crappy ad you put in Homes and Land.
Gone are the days when we can just BUY people’s attention. There’s too much noise and I have too much power to ignore YOU. Go ahead I DARE YOU to direct mail me your HORRIBLE mailers. Let’s see where your ROI will be.