When first posted this included a doctored photo at the bottom of a Down’s Syndrome child. I am making this comment here at the top so the reader comments below will still make sense. For the record, NO amount of threats or disagreements - legal or otherwise, have ever gotten me to change so much as a comma in any other post I have ever done. I am making a special exception in this case because my only targets in this post were senior executives (and their lawyers) running Bank of America’s loss mitigation division handling short sales. Not in any way an innocent child.
Bank of America is to be Highly Commended for their complete willingness to give so many intellectually challenged people jobs as executives. Sure, year in – year out, most other banks have always been willing to hire a few people who couldn’t think straight. But those other banks aren’t getting any awards for what they did for one simple reason: what they did was so darn common. Now any buzz kill who cares to can go look and find some other division of Bank of America / Countrywide that isn’t being run totally by retards (for example, their REO loss mitigation department).
But I challenge anyone to find any other bank that even comes close to Bank of America / Countrywide’s short sale loss mitigation departments for non-stop, over the top policies and procedures that make life difficult, impossible or at least a lot less profitable for the following four groups (not listed in their order of importance and there may well be others).
- All agents – either on the buyer or seller side
- All potential buyers of any property where B of A holds a 1st lien position
- All of the sellers (their borrowers) trying to work with them to avoid foreclosure
- Themselves.
If B of A is in a 2nd lien position, oddly enough they have workable policies in place (seller IS going to sign a note prior to close to pay the bank a small part of what they owe). They don’t flex on this issue but it is a knowable and not completely unfair rule. If they are in 1st lien position their standard and unvarying behavior (if that behavior were being attributed to an individual person) is nothing short of psychotic or completely retarded – at least down at the imbecile level. No rational judgement, no possibility at all of dealing with them the same way we deal with all the other banks on short sales.
Other than limited personal – and for the most part, completely anecdotal data, most agents doing short sales on the buy or the sell side have a very odd picture of the overall scene. Loads and loads of mostly worthless gibberish. Notice how Chase and Wells Fargo are grouped in the same category as Bank of America? Wells does not ever pay any of the buyer’s closing costs and won’t pay for a home warranty. But ….. you can routinely close an escrow from start to finish with Wells in about 30 days. Actually close, it takes less then two weeks to get an approval. Same with Chase. Try that with B of A / Countrywide (who collectively have about half of all problem loans in the U.S.) It takes a minimum of 90 days to get any response back from B of A. And if you send them anything after submitting the original package (anything, even a better offer) that 90 day clock is reset. So, with B of A four to five months to actually close a transaction is not uncommon.
It gets better. Here is a charming response we received from B of A a month or so back:
“Bank of America is now requiring most sellers to contribute to the loss in order to qualify for a short sale. Please prepare your client for that probability and be ready to let me know how much cash the seller can bring to closing. If no cash is available, the alternative is a promissory note for a larger portion of the loss. this requirement is firm–no contribution from the seller will result in the short sale being declined. There are vary few exemption made to this. The approval time once the file has been submitted will depend on the size of the loss, the investor and the MI insurer, if any.”
Arizona is one of ten states that have “anti-deficiency protection” due to the nature of how foreclosure works here – it takes only 90 days from the time the lender files for a Trustee’s Sale for them to take the house back. Therefore, the anti-deficiency protection (very basic rules – there are others: The same purchase money loan is still on the property, e.g., they never took any money out of the house via a refi and it was a residential property of 2.5 acres or less).
The response from B of A above was on a transaction where our seller would have no possible liability of any kind if the bank were to foreclose. None. In this case there was precisely nothing they could legally do to go after him and yet, even after being told this and being asked to please verify it with their legal department, they were not willing to budge – forcing the seller to let them foreclose. They get a house back that they really don’t want for many reasons, a neighborhood winds up with an abandoned home that will invariably sell for less money after the bank gets it back and so it goes.
It is as though a complete division of Bank of America executives went looking and anything they found that could slow down the process, make it more difficult for everybody involved or simply thwart the actual goal completely – they carefully noted what that was and then adopted it as firm policy. I’m impressed.
(12 votes, average: 4.00 out of 5)
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Nice post.It is very interesting to read American short sale division.Thanks for sharing such a nice information.
Pure insanity. The other problem we’re having is in dealing with listing agents who have no clue how to handle a short sale offer, or are purposely gaming the system in every way possible.
I’m dealing with the same BOA short sale hell in Florida. It’s as if they put a list together of rules and policies with the pure intention of extending the time, difficulty, and frustration levels of everyone involved.
Unfortunately I have to agree, Russell. We just had one approved that our buyers had been waiting on 128 days with BofA the only loan on the house.
Michigan is a deficiency judgement state and it was right there in the letter, they would pursue a deficiency judgement.
Not our seller and I can only hope the listing agent explained it to her seller, who is moving out of the country.
I think John’s comment above was the perfect punctuation on this post. There is substantial incompetence on both sides of the ball which makes for a really crappy game. Neither the banks nor realtors were prepared to take the field on short sales and here we are two years into this and most of the banks and most of the realtors STILL can’t get it right.
Nonetheless it’s still a profitable arena. Gotta love capitalism!
Jeez, I wish this post wasn’t so spot on! I just dealt with 12 weeks of negotiation with them on a short sale, and they were only holding the 1st, which wasn’t short! Because the 2nd (held by chase) was short, they all had to agree, and the deal fell apart because BOA couldn’t sign off in a timely fashion. Thanks for nothing BOA!
While I understand the sentiment of this post, those of us with siblings and friends who have Down Syndrome don’t really appreciate your using a picture of a person with Downs as an illustration of Bank of America’s short sale policy! People with Down Syndrome would quite likely have a less retarded policy than B of A’s.
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Carrie, it’s a tough call here on this one, it was sharp to me at first as well, and I’m pretty sure it would be a step up for boa to be nearly as cool as that kid.
Bad Russell, Bad! (but point well made)
Dumb and dumber with Jim Carey comes to mind when I read this post and Barry’s comment.
BOA doesn’t only mess up the short sale end. They hold a significant portion of all the VA repo’s in our area, and routinely screw them up as well – requiring financed buyers to qualify with them first or no deal. Then they’ll offer the Buyer the option (if they qualify) of assuming the foreclosed veteran’s loan (which may be a great deal), but won’t do any repairs. Soooo they send the appraiser out. Appraiser finds a couple of “subject to’s” – but BOA won’t fix it, back to square one….
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From the thesaurus:
retard – verb |ri?tärd
“the process is retarded by bureaucratic red tape delay, slow down, slow up, hold back, hold up, set back, postpone, put back, detain, decelerate; hinder, hamper, obstruct, inhibit, impede, check, restrain, restrict, trammel.”
Sounds like BOFA to me.
Carrie (and anyone else),
Thank you for such an elegant and tasteful method of pointing out my apparent insensitivity on this issue. I did not intend to make fun of or make less of anyone with Down syndrome. I can see how I wound up doing that – no matter if that was my intention or not. Many are dealt cards that they must then play regardless of if that was the game they intended. My target here was only B of A and I sincerely apologize if I crossed the line in my choice of photos to combine with the altered B of A logo. It won’t happen again.
Russell, thanks for the response! I know you didn’t specifically mean to make fun of anyone with Down syndrome. I just know that many parents are deeply sensitive to the fact that a disorder that neither they nor their child can do anything about is used to illustrate a point of someone acting in an irrational, senseless way.
Keep on writing!
A few things to keep in mind when dealing with BofA/Countrywide:
* The approval letter stating they will seek a deficiency “unless prohibited by law or otherwise agreed to in writing” is now used across the board in all 50 states.
* The deficiency policy is a “NO EXCEPTIONS” policy (if you get one, you did well).
* BofA puts the onus on the debtor to prove that they are not liable for any deficiency. They know few will sue, as most can’t afford counsel, and they know most lawyers will not do this on contingency.
* DO NOT ASSUME that a financial contribution eliminates the deficiency. GET IT IN WRITING! Citi frequently wants a 10% contribution, but will provide a full release if you push.
* The seller is looked at as “debtor”, not seller.
* If there is MI, then they or the investor they are servicing generally net more from the MI company if it goes to sale.
* CW has three centers for s/s – Simi Valley, Chandler and Plano. If it goes to Plano, figure you have less than 50/50 chance of getting the file approved vs the other two.
* Instead of incentivizing their negotiators, BofA/CW take a punitive approach.
* CW had an “aging” policy where the goal was all s/s to close in 90 days. It was a noble idea, but because of the punitive vs incentive based approached, it had unintended consequences.
If its apparent that the file wont close in time, the negotiator, with the blessing of the manager, can kill the file. and delete it from the database so there is no record of it’s failure.
* If you or your client employs an attorney to run interference, submit the package, or merely to verify status with the lender, the odds move a bit more in your direction.
* Understand that when you or I submit a financial package to a lender, it is frequently (re: whenever possible) used later for debt collection purposes. If an attorney submits the package with a cover letter stating the parameters with which the lender can use the info, your client now has a bit more leverage on how their financial info is used by the lender.
Never assume that that the bank doesn’t understand what they are doing. The knucklehead you are dealing with frequently is just following orders – orders dictated by attorneys designed to help the bank down the road.
* Expect to see these banks sit on these files and go after the deficiencies when the economy turns and people start to recover. Think of it as annuities for the banks.
First thought: B of A, wow. Enough said. Second thought: Beautiful dialogue between Russell and Carrie on a sensitive topic.
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Uggg. The reality of too big to fail, too big to care, too big to change.
Such a moral crime! Bail out the big business, crush the common citizen.
Swing for fences and lend like drug dealers deal.
Fail like the Titanic.
Have tax payers and BofA home loan customers bail you out to the tune of $120BILLION.
When loan customers (who bailed you out) have problems, don’t assist them, nail them to cross, stone them, drown them in financial rip-currents and chains of red tape.
It’s criminal. Period. To make things worse, there’s even less competition for these clowns than ever before, we can count on their oligopoly to empower the continued abuse of borrowers.
All actions of the Bank of America and Countrywide and many other lenders/banks are intentional, becaues the easiest way of ruining a deal or burying it under the table is to play dumb by being anally serious. It is a scary thought that individuals who run our country’s financial and by the way political system brush a huge bunch of other people aside just because they think they are too annoying with their needs and should be put on hold.
I agree 100% with you. They are retards from the 1st observation, however I think they are planning something…as far as future collection attempt.
In most cases seller are better off to take the foreclosure hit. It’s not the end of the world.
I’m doing my last 2 countrywide short sales. I just can’t justify making money and putting sellers in a possibly much wors situation that they need to be.
I did my first real estate deal with B/A back in 1972 or so if memory serves. My client was a freakin’ B/A employee for Heaven’s sake, and still they turned a simple employee loan to buy a home into E=MC².
I vowed then, and have kept to it, never to do real estate business with them again. In hindsight, a pretty good call for a 20 year old.
Jeff – I had two similar situations in the 90’s. One buyer was in management, the other was the sister of a bank manager. Both had tried to go via the branch and it was a mess. I took them through their res lending dept and got them done in 2 weeks. Right hand not knowing there is a left hand.
To their credit, my first home loan in 1994 was a BofA 3.5% no neg 1 year arm. Of course it was mandated by the Feds after they were found guilty of red lining, but it was a sweet deal.
Every time I talk to a prospective seller, the very minute they tell me it’s Bank of America/Countrywide … I “cringe”…
They do go through, don’t get me wrong. However, they are SO hard to work with, and I just don’t get it. Are they trying to hurt themselves? There is NO real good reason for their mostly over the top asinine behavior and unbelievable policies. They should be THE LEADERS in “short sales made simple”.. instead they are everyone’s nightmare..
Thanks for the article, Russell. I am forwarding this article to anyone who has a hard time believing what I’ve been telling them about BOA/Countrywide, ’cause frankly, sometimes I can’t believe it myself.. Here is the nation’s #1 home lender (maybe not now)… First, they helped a lot of people GET homes; now they’re helping a lot of people LOSE them…
Based on the irritation level of everyone, this is clearly a problem with BOA. As big as they are, they alone can stint our progress in the housing recovery.
Do not agree with the photo of the boy. Shouldn’t be there.
TOTALLY agree with the rest. BofA has no clue on what’s going on out here among workers trying to save them from their bad loans and previous mistakes.
I have 4 going on and one has been “under review” for 378 days as of today. Buyer is backing off and I am not getting paid.
Would someone do something to change this, please?
I absolutely love the BOA Retard Division Photo on the top of the article! I laughed so hard. I don’t usually post on blogs, I just read them for research purposes, but this one deserves a post.
My husband and I have been waiting 122 days for our short sale to get approved. The first is BOA and the second is GMAC. BOA approved it August 26th with a promise to have the approval letter within 48 hours. We finally got their approval letter (Notification of the letter via the Seller’s Agent) the 2nd of September. Yeah 48 hours my butt! Now we are waiting on GMAC, who we have been led to believe already gave us a verbal yes, but we haven’t received the written approval yet. And we aren’t even to the ‘regular 30 days to closing’ yet…
but my frustration with BOA doesn’t end there. I worked for them years ago and got fired for being one minute late on Friday the 13th! The branch I worked at always made me feel like an outsider and I guess that was their way of getting rid of me.
I wanted to Thank all of you bloggers for your info. about your dealings with BOA and with short sales.
Russell,
I am sure that if your Bank of America tirade were to be published locally in your area, on say one of your famous radio ads or perhaps a billboard, that your business would tank! I have not seen a more offensive use of the word “retard” in years….. you should have a stomach-ache for writing that garbage…. I would love for all of your clients to see just how sensitive a fellow you are, and the fair housing people, in my opinion, would have a hey-day with this one.
You appear to be crass,small-minded, and a bigot…. If I get caught up on my own work, I will make it a top priority to see that those in your own market-place are aware of your views on “retards”….you are a real charmer!
Teresa,
Looks like I am just real lucky that you are so busy.
@ Teresa – Please note Russell’s apology above, dated Sept.1 I think, if you do a little research, you will find that Mr. Shaw is anything but a “crass, small-minded bigot”.
@ Russell – I have been having serious delays with BOA when in 2nd position. Up to 6 weeks to review initial package; has this been your experience?
I have to agree with Russell, however I don’t approve of using the term “retard”. I have been working on one for 13 months. Should I just give up? This is the most unbelievable way to conduct business I have ever seen. I know that they have ordered at least 12 BPOs. I have not received a phone call, email or anything!!! I wonder how their corporate office would respond to your criticism.
Russell, This is a very informative and useful article and thread. However, the verbiage and photographs are ill-advised and detract from your intended purpose, likewise making your insightful article lack a serious intent. This is a very important topic highlighting the disingenuous way boa is handling the short sale process. I humbly ask you amend the article and remove the photos so we can move on to the real topic. I think people who other wise might contribute to the article may move on due to admittedly unintentionally offensive content. Full disclosure here, I am currently in the process of a short sale with boa currently past 90 days. While I understand this is very early in the process, we seem to be stuck in a circular pattern. We have submitted all necessary documents however, the process takes 10 business days to go thru the fax/pdf stage and another 10 business days to be approved before the docs can be submitted to a level 1 negotiator. Two times now boa has asked for current bank and paystub docs. Evidently previous month docs are necessary, 20 business days is 1 month. In the current system we will never able to provide current docs, this is an obvious stalling tactic, WE ARE LIVE IN THE 21ST CENTURY IT DOES NOT TAKE 10 BUSINESS DAYS EXACTLY TO ELECTRONICALLY PROCESS DOCUMENTATION. Until Bob’s insightful post I had been racking my brain as to how this could possibly be beneficial to BOA. I had been “looking for the money” , now I understand this is a gamble for future lawsuits, as well as, understand boa stands to make more money filing insurance claims. I wonder if someone shouldn;t be talking to the MI co.s about this. Surely their btm. lines will be affected adversly by this practiced.
I have to agree with this opinion. I am 6 months into a short sale where I offered exactly the asking price. We have never been told if the loan has went to a Level 2 negotiator; in fact, we got the seller’s agent to ask them (boa) to expedite the approval and he was told that that would take an addt’l 6 weeks. Huh!!
Using pics of challenged people is very poor taste. Shame on you and AG for doing this.
I will say I hate Bank of America though, just dropped them for Chase. If Chase sucks as bad of BofA then it’s backing to using credit unions for me.
I think that the use of the boy in the picture with Down Syndrome Is not in good taste at all.
If you had any thought for the millions of parents struggling everyday to come to terms with this….you would take the photo of this boy down and replace it with your own. obviously the way you are responding to the posts…make much more sense!
Having been a real estate professional, I applaud your attack on the banks but I do not appreciate your use of
the word “retard” and the pictures of precious children
with Downs.
Yes, I did notice your apology, but the harm has been done and what you first wrote reveals the real you and your reactions to people less fortunate.
I am very disappointed in you Russell Shaw!
I noticed Russell’s original apology, but I think his response to Teresa’s comments shows his true character – rude, dismissive, insensitive and unprofessional.
I’ll tell ya what I know about Russell’s character. He doesn’t yield to PC bullying after he’s sincerely apologized. Neither would I.
I’ve met Russell Shaw and I can tell you one thing for certain: he is FAR from being rude, dismissive, insensitive and unprofessional. He apologized for Pete’s sake, why can’t that be accepted?
Hi Russel,
Your article on Bank of America, is unfortunately too true. Do you think there is another motive for not conducting short sales in a timely manner, and then, if you are lucky enough to get somewhere, the seller contribution that is almost impossible to meet, not paying the necessary closing costs. I even had them reduce a commission to 4% because they did not notice, the selling agent was from an entirely different company. When I asked them to revisit, I got a response in minutes that the investors said they were losing so much, they would not change it. The truth was, the negotiator made a mistake, and did not submit my request. Even if true, why do they take it out on the Realors back, for their poor lending practice?
I hear that they would rather foreclose, than shortsale, the benifit for the write off is better, and they also write off the payroll for the “Retards” they hire.
The way they practice business and treat us as agents is mortifying to say the least. The absolute worse branch is for the line of equity in South Carolina, they should get the Rude Retard award of the century.
Thanks Donna
Love your article. I even tried to see if there were class action suits going on. Apparently the banks have gotten themselves exempt. If a borrowor feels slighted, they have to sue individually, which of course they cannot afford.
It is time to take our frustrations to the streets of America! Wake up America these clowns are playing us the entire way. I have 11 short sales in process with BOA. NONE, NADA, ZILCH have been approved and some have seriously been in progress for over 400+ days now! BOA doesn’t have a clue how to handle this situation. They hire.. it seems anyone off the streets to handle these files. When I asked a negotiator what is taking so long and what is the hold up she stated. “We have over 800 files to review, we work six days a week into the night” I simply stated, that they needed to hire more people and she was adamant that it wasn’t possible. She stated, “We can’t just hire thousands of people to handle these files” That is when the bailout of the billions last yr to BOA ran through my mind and I snapped. I can’t handle the calls anymore. I snap everytime they tell me it’s been assigned to another MOFO negotiator. One file has had &*** Seven different negotiatiors!! You constantly get the run around to the point where you want to reach through the phone and rip the MOFO negotiators heads off! Literally, short sales from hell that are driving me insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anybody dealt with the REO’s working for BOA AFTER the foreclosure/auction? They want the listing agent to work (and work you will!) for peanuts, or for free. (their acct dept admitted expense reimburse turnaround time is 60 to 90 days) They actually expected us to pay to have the utilities turned on, pay the monthly bills, and then stated in the Master List Agreement that they would only pay $50/mo. Our city utility co. charges monthly “service fees” of about $100/mo, just for having the utility account on (before you ever use any power), so apparantely the LA is supposed to supplement the utility bill. NOT! Kick Rocks B of A!! I am so done with these idiots!
Help! Need advice. Went from 2 incomes to 1 income, loosing the bigger of the 2. Haven’t made a mort. payment for 8mo. Tried to get loan mod, sent/resent paperwork multiple ways more times than I can count. Was approached by invester to Short Sale the house. BOA rejected the offer. Now can’t even offer again for 3mo. I live in Michigan. Should I just foreclose, go bankrupt, or ride it out. I won’t be able to handle paying a deficiency, can hardly make it week to week now. We tried in good faith to work with them, but got NO where.
I don’t understand what BOA is getting by making it so difficult. At auction they won’t get what was offered for the S/S.
I love the pic – they just look ugly and dumb – not with downs syndrome. Anyway, when the word retard is used disparagingly its “Slang” — not used correctly. If you know the real definition of RETARD – it fits perfectly for BOA and thier lawyers.
Verb: To make slow; delay the development or progress of (an action, process, etc.); hinder or impede.
Thanks for listening.
I think what needs to happen is for some law firm that is looking to make a name for itself to go after B of A in a class action lawsuit representing the neighborhoods of houses that sold for far less as REO properties because they wouldn’t do the short sales. Typically when they finally sell as bank owned listings they go for much less which has devestated property values.
I also would like to see states have a minimum standard for loan modifications and short sales and if the bank does not meet the standards then the cost for doing foreclosures should be significantly higher. Charging a surcharge to banks like Bof A who do not make a decent attempt to get these deals done before going to auction would help replace the revenue the states are loosing due to the lower property values and property taxes and also help create some incentive for the banks to get these deals done before they go to sale.
Russell……..I have over 50 Short Sales this month with BofA /Countrywide and its true….they are not efficient or intelligent in their approach. No the less we need to move forward. In January 2009 I met with some of the local politicians and days later BofA called me and they approved everything. I sincerely believe we need to get together and formulate a strategy to change some of the local rules for BofA. Until we approach them from a position of strength THEY will continue to wreck the local economy.
What a joke I see no mention of you involvment in the situation at all. Russ I am an agent and when I first got my lic. I interviewed to work with you. Thank god above I did not choose to work with your staff who as the top selling agent in the state sold what 10% of the properties that are now in the short sale process I would love to get my hands on the original documents that boa has and see how many loans you were a part of that you in your fiduciary duty said to these buyers yes this is a good deal at this price. How much money did you make at 3% on representing these buyers who are now losing the home. Did you go to the signing with them? Or did you just wait for title to issue that check.
While I can appreciate the frustration with short sales, it is evident that Russell is not as well-versed as he professes. Many short sale negotiators do indeed come from years in the real estate and mortgage industry, but are now bound to follow the instructions and requirements of the entity that actually holds the note on a loan, or the mortgage insurance company, if there is one. Banks DO service loans for other lenders–they do not simply hold all of their own notes–and Countrywide was the single largest loan servicer in the country. Now Bank of America has inherited those loans. I know that the acceptable terms for a short sale differ from one loan to the next, based on several factors, including who holds the actual note, and more importantly, how the seller’s current financials and spending habits look. As some of the postings on this site have stated, negotiators are working through mounds of files and are doing their best to comply with all of the demands from both ends, while trying to ascertain the homeowners that really need a short sale vs. those that just “made a bad investment” and want out. The process is undoubtedly flawed, but with all the issues involved, it seems that a “perfect” solution is a ways off. To agents and sellers, a “perfect” system would be one without any accountability on the part of the seller–banks would simply take large losses and allow the sellers to walk away from their responsibilities. How likely is that to happen?
Keep in mind that no lender is obligated to do a short sale and accept less than a full payoff–even when we cannot fathom why the deal is not good enough. The issue may lie with the seller and not the offer. There are a lot of “back end” issues that we never see or understand, which are what complicate the process. As a side note,Russell–you rave about Wells Fargo short sales–next time you speak to a negotiator at CW/BofA, ask them how many of their loans are serviced FOR Wells Fargo.
Making the generalization that the employees of any company are “retarded” is extremely unprofessional and ignorant. These people are trying to make a living and are doing the best that they can, given the sheer volume of contracts they deal with and the regulations imposed on them. Berating them and being nasty will not make your job any easier. There is always the option of not accepting short sale listings. Your article does serve one very important purpose: It lets Phoenix sellers know not to hire you for a short sale listing, since your ranting is not going to endear you to the banks (or their employees) that you slander and will definitely not help you with your short sales, so your clients would be better served seeking an agent that has not angered the lenders. Word does get out. Your managing broker may be interested in your actions as well. By the way, the BofA REO management you tried to butter up? These would be the same department executives that oversee the short sale department. I recommend knowing your target a little better before taking aim. Good luck getting REO listings after this article has been posted!
While short sales are frustrating and hard for all sides we all need to keep in mind that the loans originated by the banks were in a large part done by mortgage brokers in cooperation with the realtors in these deals during the boom. Borrowers, knowing well their financial situation were so willing to take a stated loan in hopes they will be making more money in a year or the home will appreciate $100k in 6 mnths. There are people with true hardships that need help but it also seems(especially in FL and other resort communities) that people that saw an infomercial and went out to become superstar investors overnight with loans through their realtor/loan officer. That does seem a bit “retarded” now doesnt it. We also should not forget that these horrible loans everyone in the industry(including poor government oversight) were so eager to do are part of your mutual funds, IRA, 401k, or any other investment portfolio thanks to wall street thinking it was a cash cow. So those losses translate to the markets now. We are all in this mess trying to figure a way out. On a final note, most realtor’s entitlement to 6% is amazing. There is no federal or state mandate on commission. It is what the market dictates. So guess what my agent friends? Like so many other Americans working harder for a little less pay, so is the real state industry. I never got a complaint when you could attach your card to a new home app and get a 4-5% commission check. No complaints then. Hopefully the banks will be more willing to make faster decisions and help the true hardships such as unemployed and ill borrowers who would be able to pay but for a tragedy in their lives and hopefully more competent agents will take strategic actions instead of simply yelling in font.
The ineffectiveness is amazing. I learned today that BofA’s entire short sale system collapsed, look here for more information. mattweidnerlaw.com/blog/?p=329
I have been forced into foreclosure by Bank of America and I would like to file a class-action lawsuit against them. After months and months of trying to get TWO different short sales (on my own home) through Bank of America both of which failed because it was taking B of A too long, I am furious that I am facing foreclosure now because of their incompetency. As one of the comments above, my first short sale was a great offer which would have paid B of A off completely but was presented as a short sale because of a second mortgage with Wachovia that would not be satisfied with the sale. After 3 1/2 MONTHS, it was not yet approved and my buyer had to cancel the contract and buy another house. Also, as I read above, it is unbelievable that it takes B of A over 10 days to even log in a short sale contract, let alone take a look at it. That is just shocking in this day and age.
My realtor and I have had hundreds and hundreds of phone calls with Bank of America employees this year and each person we talk with is dumber than the last one. Here is a good one…before the real estate listing contract expired, Bank of America changed the locks on the house so my realtor couldn’t even get in to get their sales materials out of the house. Fortunately, I am living in another state and the home is vacant but I was not informed that they were changing the locks. That is just outrageous.
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The last comment proves exactly why me and many agents won’t deal with short sales. I feel bad for all those that need to do one though.
I have spent many (won’t tell how many) years in other businesses. Ten years in real estate, and I could create a better short sale process than the ones I have seen. When I was attempting to solve a major problem we always broke it into pieces and attacked the “low hanging fruit” first. In sales these are the ones yielding the quickest and easiest profits. In the mortgage mess, that would be the ones with the smallest shortages. I did a short sale last year that would have only cost the lender about $10,000 at the point where we submitted two contracts and the seller’s paperwork. After calling every work day for 90 days the lender assigned a negotiator and they managed to close in 7 days. The shortage to my seller had become $25,000 after penalties, interest, additional missed payments and legal fees. The bank accepted one of the original offers. It did not take a CPA or a rocket scientist to see that my seller was flat broke and was looking for a graceful way out. If the lender had prioritized files on receipt this one should have been much higher in the processing que. I have been reluctant to take on other short sales because of the time commitment. I am looking for the “lower hanging fruit” too.
BOA lost me 4 short sale offers on my home. I have not made a payment since July. We could have sold that home back in June and then again in August. All of the offers have been pulled because nobody wanted to wait any longer. I’ve had the home on the market fo/r 3 1/2 years–I paid my mortgage for three years while not living in it (in addition, to having a child, and seeing my husband through cancer and a layoff. I am finished. It’s BOA’s problem now. I wish we could file a class action suit. Does anybody know of one?
One wonders if BofA got the sweetheart deal that some other lenders got.
fdic.gov/consumers/loans/loanmod/
This allows the bank to make more money by going to foreclosure and making a claim. Once they re-sell at a loss, the FDIC insurance kicks in and the taxpayers get to pay for the difference in market value and original loan amount.
Terrific deal for the Bank executives. A really good analysis of this can be found at this blog post detailing how Soros, Michael Dell et al, took advantage of this when acquiring IndyMac.
shortsalejacksonville.com/2009/09/onewest-bank-taxpayers-and-the-fdic-looking-into-the-deal-and-the-resulting-loss-share-agreement.html
BofA may not be as dumb as you think. Or…rather they’re dumb like Br’ier Rabbit….
To everyone who states they would like to file a class action law suit, and inquiring about entitlement…
Hey, how about paying your stinking mortgage like your neighbor who is working 2 jobs? Oh, is it some big bad man’s fault who MADE you sign those loan docs when you bought it? Short selling your house is not a right. YOU can’t pay YOUR loan, so you want to sue the bank.
And no, Russel Shaw does not go to the majority of his signings. He chucks out a bunch of advertisements, delegates, and sits back while the checks roll in. But OOOH, he has time to blog about the injustice!
LOL – that is awesome Wally!!
I’m a first time home buyer in Las Vegas, NV. I’ve already been approved for a mortgage, and I’ve been shopping for homes since the end of June. Upset b/c investors with cash kept outbidding me on the bank-owned homes, I went into contract on a short sales the middle of August.
The lender is (Guess who?) Bank of America, and it’s been utter hell. They keep re-assigning my negotiator. It went to the third phase TWICE and got kicked back to the first phase-whatever the hell that means. As far as I’m concerned the only word that can be used to describe these idiots is ‘retard’. And yes, I agree with the polite woman with the down-syndrome sibling, that people with down-syndrome would actually do a much better job than the morons at B of A.
is there somebody out there who can help or do something with this bank, they dont deserve to be in this business, i’ve closed my accounts with them, i hope all of their other customers do the same because people who are running this bank are so SELFISH, they dont want to help.my house is in short sale got an offer for cash but we’re not getting anywhere its like we’re just running on a treadmill but not getting anywhere, if there’s anybody out there who can help?, or if somebody from this bank reads these comments pls , pls., we are doing our part why don’t you do yours and don’t say that you understand what we’re going thru because you don’t, you don’t feel the agony, pain and hopelessness that we feel in losing our home.
Russell, I can only find one fault in this post, even though I was not looking for it. You stated that Wells will not pay buyer closing costs and I just closed a short sale approved by Wells Fargo and they did contribute $6,000 toward my buyers closing cost. Other than that, fantastic article as usual.
BOA needs to clean up their short sale process. This is getting to be a game of Shoots and Ladders, at best! If they impose a rule on a homeowner or do not like an offer then they send the short sale down the shoot back to the beginning. How stupid is that? it will cost them more money in the long run.
We had a cash offer to do a short sale on our home. Started the process 9/3/2009 as of 12/30/09 no negotiator although we had submitted all the paperwork. 1 Appraisal was done per Michael Sheldo. He also told us the file was dropping through the cracks and he was going to escalate the file on 12/30/09. However on 1/5/2010 our home was foreclosed on, and I quote the foreclosure dept, “the foreclosure date didn’t get postponed, it dropped through the cracks”. Our house was foreclosed on 1/5/2010 and as of today, the Short Sale dept does not know the the house has been foreclosed on and is still asking for information to complete the shortsale. No accountability, just several people saying “sorry, that your file got dropped”! Unbelieveable!
Amen Russell! We have 2 listings in Short Sale with Bank of America, one of which I have the Buyer for and we submitted our contract in July 2009, every week it is the same story, “please call back in 10 days”. UGHHHHHHHHHHhhhhh!!
We just got denied for a 3rd time by BOA. We had an offer come in that would have paid out 92% after realtor fees. We don’t have the necessary $33,000 to complete the transaction. BOA took 2 1/2 months to come back and tell us we got disapproved. We stopped making payments six months ago to try to get the process rolling. BOA is not helping with short sales nor are they attempting to work with their customers.
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Maybe they think values are going up!
Also, they have the money to withstand the drop in values so why should they cave?
They may look bad, but they are there to make profits, not be a social service agency.
I am not in favor of what they’re doing and don’t have the answer to what they are doing but hang in there!
I am an attorney handling a negotiation for a client’s short sale with BOA. After 90 days, on New Years Eve, the case negotiator sent me a secure email that I could not open requiring additional information they already had. If they didn’t get it by Monday (after the holiday weekend), they would arbitrarily cancel the file. I got them the information, bu they still cancelled the file. Unconscionable! Bad faith…you said it! Does anybody know of any law that forbids these financial institutions from doing this? Any ammo would help.
i had the same problem with b of a …. it took them 17 months to close a freaking short sale … these retards do not understand market is falling we clients offered 300k they wanted 330k by the time approved for 300 market is down to 170 they lost more than 200k because a retard can not forcast the market
Pure HELL is what we have been going through. We received a verbal approval of our short sale on Dec. 12, 2009, and now it is Jan. 16, 2010 and we still do not have a written approval. The buyer has walked away from the deal….this is the third time that the house has been sold, but the buyers walk away because of the incompetence of BOA. They continually slow down the process to make it difficult for all involved…….
This post and a few others I have come across have been very informative in regards to what is going on over at B of A. I find it rather ironic that on their own website (homeloanbusiness.bankofamerica.com/ShortSaleInformation.aspx) they try to make the process sound so simple:
“Once we have received a copy of the signed purchase contract:
* Within approximately 2 days of receiving the faxed documents, the customer or agent will receive confirmation of the received purchase contract. If the offer is possibly viable, an interior appraisal will be ordered.
* Within an additional 3 days an appraiser will be assigned, they will contact the customer or their agent to schedule an appointment to conduct an interior appraisal.
* Approximately 7 to 10 days after the appraisal is ordered, the results of the appraisal will be received by us. This is absolutely dependent on obtaining access to the property in a timely manner.
* Upon receipt of the appraisal, we will conduct an analysis to determine if the Short Sale offer is aligned with the fair market value.”
I think the key thing is in the first line of this, “Once we have received a copy” as it seems the hardest thing to do is to get them the copy of these documents.
My wife and I are the potential buyers of a short sale transaction that should be fairly clean. Single person on title, property on the market for 2 years with no other offers but ours, very depressed area, seller is of course motivated, first title has initially cleared and we are waiting for BofA to approve their second.
I have been hearing from the Realtors that they have had to FAX in the paperwork about 6 times so far, each time they call to verify they are bounced to another person who has been assigned this case and they do not see the file in the system yet. The last time they called in they said “did you fax it in in 10 page increments?”. It’s seems like the rules are figured out as they go.
A possible good thing is coming across these various blog postings. We learned of the Equator system and maybe that is a better thing, as of this last Friday paperwork was being re-submitted via this system, we’ll see if it is better.
And, seeing this post, it sounds like BofA can be a little more reasonable when it comes to seconds, which is the case for us, so I’m hoping this is a good thing. We’ll see, I’m tracking our progress on our blog if anyone is interested, and have posted a link back to this article as well. blog.mountainearsfarms.com
If there are any suggestions for us, we’d love to hear them.
It is Jan 27, 2010 and I am still waiting for BOA decison or better yet revision of some folder for a house we put a deposit in Nov last year. You know what: I love you. Thanks for the article, you rock!
I have several BofA short sales and in January I closed one and I have approvals on three more. It takes time but its not impossible.
Bank of America is more epidemic to this country than the Swine Flu.
Holly cow…I do not have any dude that is imposible that they could be so stupid. I know with all of my deals they probably hundreds of thousands, maybe 6 figures #.
I present,with ofer above fair market and did not get responses.
One get to 7 negotiator in phase one and them tell to be nice…after finally get to phase 2 negotiator who close the file for mistake.
Another deal with a super fair offer in the table, the close, and open the file 4 times over a year playing this game.
As a listing agent, in most of BOA short sale listing have to make get under contract 3, 4, 5 times before I get pay.
I really think that they do not really want to approved more short sale because they do not want to show the investors have many loan are in default and for most part the people working there sucks.
In any corporation in United States that I work as hard that I work for this BOA, I will have be compesate every month with a paycheck and the sure be the one the ones to call be everyday and not me to call them and ask for mercy and be the end and all my hard work they always cut my fee, but still pay BIG BONUS…BIG COJONES at my hard work expense.
I Hate BOA, I will not put a penny in BOA, I recomend my customers based on my experience not to do business with them. Many negotiators will refuse to take file from BOA at this time. Goood luck to everybody but is not much with them
I’ve heard both positive and negative (albeit admittedly much more negative) about BOA. That said; I’ve also heard lots of encouraging news recently on the situation improving. Among other things, there is the HAMP programs, the FHA title seasoning changes, rumors through the grapevine that BOA is expanding their loss mit departments, newspaper articles on fraud for 2nd lien position holders. Who knows what is going on – I suppose time will tell, but over the past few months I really have heard / witnessed a marked improvement in the perception of BoA loss mit policies.
I worked in the Short Sale Department for about 4 months. The problem goes deeper than the reps who answer the phone in the short sale department. It is not the reps that are at fault and not even so much the managers of the department even though some of them can’t give you a straight or a correct one. The managers aren’t trained well and they train the agents in customer service. The momemental fault for lack of a powerful word is the fault of the CEOs and heads of the bank itself for ignoring the problem and the problems are more than those of just the Short Sale department. There is a tremendous lack of informative communication. Knowledge is not the keyword for this bank. They key word is confusion. Could be that the ceo’s of B of A want to keep this operation confusion on going, I really don’t know. It sure seems like it. I worked with one so-called lead for a month and most of the questions I asked remained unanswered. At the present time all short sales are going into the Equator because that is presently the answer to all of this. Yet again, no one is really trained in it, there are no real directions and no real directions for the homeowners and the agents. There are tech support phone numbers however, certain loans are going in there that should not be in there because they are too close to closing or FHA,,Gmna loans, private label & others. Yet, they are placed in there and when you asked a quesiton, all you do get is a dumb answer from the managers because they don’t know themselves. Inshort, the lesson that I learned is if you have a lot of money in Bank Of America, pull it out and go somehwere else for a short if you can! I have worked in many jobs throughout my lifetime, never have a worked within such chaos! I reaaly thought that B of A was a good bank before this. But it is truly alarming.
Regina, your comments on what goes on internally at BofA makes sense. I have worked as Home Retention Counselor with Titanium Solutions for 5 years now. No one ever knows what is going on. However, I can say that I have been persistant and have close several BofA/CW short sales. I just closed 1 yesterday after 4 months. The rediculous thing on this sale was that FannieMae had approved the short sale 11/19/09. I knew this, because someone from FannieMae call me directly. According to the cust reps in the short sale dept said that a negotiator had not been assigned to the file yet. They assigned the file on 11/30/09. I called twice a week, I emailed the negotiator and her supervisor with no response. It wasn’t until 1/11/10 that I got the approval letter that was dated for 11/19/09 and expired on 12/20/09! I couldn’t do anything with that letter. I still had to negotiate with the 2nd, which was Wells Fargo. Finally, I got an extension letter. Wells Fargo approved their short sale in a week. WF on a HELOC, took 10% of the balance for a settlement. I have it in writing that they are not pursuing the deficiency. BofA’s loan is a purchase money loan, which is non-recourse in the State of California. This is frustrating to the sellers, buyers and the agents. Hopefully, with Equator it will get better. But I am not holding my breath. I have 5 short sales with BofA in Equator right now. We will see.
Heal to BoAm.
For being so BIG that the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing, as a Realtor I have entertained numerous short sales with Boa in the past 8 years and a couple in the past 3 months that involved the past Countrywide Mtg. Lately calling customer service is like being part of a torture chamber, ask 4 different questions and will get 5 different answers! Ok – not that bad, but 4 for 4. I listed a short sale in late September, had a contract in early Nov. closed on this cash deal ($285k) in mid. Nov. Simple policies make simple deals – BoAm. now involved with this Equator.com site (a generic short sale site) – which makes the transaction even more frustrating, as the program may or may not be up and running the day you, and/or the seller have to upload info. mind that your seller must be computer literate – good luck on that with the senior developments. C’mon BoAm. lets work together and close on these homes in a very timely fasion. I am currentley with a transaction where BoAm. is the 2nd. lien holder and still make it difficult to accept a % of funds from the originating bank! A good thing that only a small % of BoAm. customers are Realtors, as BoAm. would be owned by Wells fargo
I’m currently working on a new short sale with B of A with their new system…I’ll let you know if it is BETTER or WORSE….Could it get any worse with BofA??? with alot of loans with BofA I hope their new system has different guidelines and rules for approval. I try to keep a positive attitude in these trying times! I’ll keep you all posted on my experience.