Nick Bostic

Nick runs a new media marketing consulting company helping real estate professionals learn how to implement new media tools into their marketing arsenal. He frequently gives presentations on generational marketing, green marketing and advanced online promotion. Nick is active on LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter.

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36 Comments

  1. Jonathan Dalton

    The last hard mail I still do consistently is the expired letters. If someone can provide me with the e-mail addresses of every seller whose listing expires, I’ll be happy to change.

    Other than that, I abandoned direct mailing long, long ago – not in deference to Gen Y since, amazingly enough, there are many of us out there of different generations (not sure when those of us in Gen X got put out to pasture) but simply because there was no ROI.

  2. Hi, I'm Jeff Turner And I Got Here Before Rudy

    Nick… I am not Gen Y and I have the same feelings and use email in the same way. This is going to become less and less generational.

  3. Christina Ethridge

    Well, I’m a Gen Yer in a Gen Xer body and I have to say: our biggest ROI is our direct mail. We have an active blog (2 blogs actually), 80% of our clients utilize any number of our websites (not talking about outside websites like r.com). We send out a monthly newsletter that we still get the most response from. It’s one of the 3 major things we do to connect with our client base and to establish new clientelle.

    We heavily use direct email marketing (effective), blogging (effective), multiple websites (effective) and direct mail (insanely effective). We increase our direct mail presence nearly every month because it works and it works well.

    Yes, I get great stats with our electronic methods – but, every month, within 3 days of the newsletter being mailed, our phone volume increases anywhere from 38% to 87% (highs and lows from our server tracker). I also have this cycle period, the majority of the listings I take sign between the 21st and the 28th of the month (the week following the mail out) – and yes, although someone may have come into the ‘database’ via another method, I track every method that got them to connect with us and the final method that took them from prospect to client.

  4. Linda Davis

    Yahooooo and Thank you!!! I count on my competition thinking direct mail is a complete waste of time and money and archaic too! Thanks for reinforcing the idea. In the meantime, I’ll continue to send a cheesy newsletter, calendars at Christmas (yikes, can I say the C word), state of the market reports and yes, even school calendar magnets…… while laughing all the way to the bank as my competition wonders what happened.

  5. Jeff Brown

    Though I’m on the investment side, I’d be curious to learn your thoughts on how some of the most prolific agents in the country are doing it — through direct mail.

    They mailing to the same folks over and over and producing pretty impressive results. How impressive? Incomes beginning at half a million to over 2 million.

    I agree with your central point — GenY will have to be dealt with on their terms or they’ll take their ball and go home. (Of course that’s not self-centered in any way.)

    My question — how often do you think your generation is going to under perform while blissfully ignorant of that fact, as a direct result of not making their number one agent requirement — expertise, experience, knowledge, and SUPERIOR RESULTS?

    Again Nick, your point is very well taken. All I have to do is use the communication media they desire and I’m in. It sure beats having to demonstrate my relative superior results with empirical evidence. After all, I must know what I’m doing — I used Twitter didn’t I? :)

    Sarcasm aside, I get your message loudly and clearly. Still, I’d like to hear your thoughts on my observations. Thanks, and keep this stuff going.

  6. Benn Rosales

    The pasture aside, the bottom line is the reality that some marketing many depended upon in the past is becoming more and more devalued, but lets look a little more deeply here.

    I think this article gives all marketers food for thought that you really do have to use some common sense when segmenting your marketing. For example, how long has the neighborhood been established and what would be the most effective way to reach them. If email crosses over, then great, but I would insert that if you take this approach in the midwest, you would maybe miss out on entire States with a one size fits all approach.

    Both work, but the blast it all attitude of the past will cost you money, targeting will bring you much better results.

    This goes back to the neighborhood agent I suspect. You really do know your market, and you would know if your results are trailing- but Nick brings an awesome inexpensive approach to the table here- why not do both, email costs you zip compared to print and you’ve maximized your exposure.

    Great post.

  7. Re-Creative

    Nick,
    Great post!

    I recently started a company here in Portland that specializes in email marketing for Realtors. We use constant contact to distribute e-flyers for agents listings. Check it out at http://www.RE-Creative.net

    We started in January, and I’ve already gotten a lot of good feedback, and my list of clients is growing daily. I really think agents are starting to pick up on the little things we can all do to make a difference in the environment. But, I have gotten some agents that email me back yelling(all caps) to remove them from our database, and even a couple that threaten me, all because we sent them an email. They obviously take their jobs WAY too seriously!

    Anyway, again, great post. Keep ‘em coming!

  8. Benn Rosales

    “I have gotten some agents that email me back yelling(all caps) to remove them from our database, and even a couple that threaten me, all because we sent them an email. They obviously take their jobs WAY too seriously!”

    I think this is anyone who didn’t volunteer their information, not just agents- I’ve had these same calls from consumers who did ask for mls updates and newsletters online.

    I agree with taking our jobs seriously- thanks for noticing, and thanks for commenting.

  9. Re-Creative

    No problem, and I should point out that I was specifically referring to the agents that threatened me when I said “They” take their job WAY too seriously.

  10. Charleston real estate blog

    Nick, very helpful and thanks for the insights. As a boomer, I have 5 emails but only 3 are checked regularly, that puts me at about half a typical gen y. And I respond within minutes whenever possible.

    I am annoyed by spam emails sent by other agents to the mls database such as are delivered by constant contact and other providers highlighting their listings, open houses, price reductions, etc. Hundreds of these wasteful emails go into my spam folder daily. I can search the MLS and locate properties that would be of interest to clients I am searching for without the added help of these untargeted emails.

    On the other hand, I communicate via email consistently to an opted in group of real estate consumers of all generations. My only excursion to the US Post Office is mailing Xmas cards. And I’ll meet at Starbucks or the office. Flexibility is the game.

  11. Nick

    RE-Creative-
    We should get together to chat, we may be able to help each other

    Charleston-
    You hit the nail on the head with flexibility. My first post talked about being flexible in communications and that really is key.

    I will also agree that there is a lot of JUNK email that comes through, mostly from within the industry. I’m not a Realtor, but I receive about 4 “different” title-industry email newsletters a day. I scan the headlines very quickly and usually delete all of them. But even when I receive a Realtor newsletter (same industry, different facet) I stop and take a look.

  12. Mariana

    I am a Gen Xer and I have these same sentiments. Like Jeff said before me, I think this will become less and less generational.

  13. Nick

    Mariana, I think you’re right. As my parents realize the easiest way to contact me is email, they are slowly forming to my methods of communication as well. I think each generation pioneers something, but all of the others learn from it and pick and choose and adapt as well.

  14. Joanne Hanson

    We have been having this very discussion in our office this week. The frequency with which people change their email addresses means we can lose touch with them very quickly, but we absolutely want to do what is easy and cheap, not to mention environmentally responsible. So we will probably continue to do a mixture of electronic and snail mail.

  15. Denver Refinance

    I think Click/Delete is a big problem. People get so much email these days that a lot of people delete it before reading if they don’t think it’s crucial. I send out old fashioned handwritten postcards, and those ALWAYS get read because people aren’t used to getting them anymore. I use a combination of email, phone, postcards and the truly archaic old-fashioned business letter. I find that these methods are like combination punches. A person gets a postcard; two weeks later a call; two weeks later a letter; two weeks later an email (which they read because of my other contacts). It all works, but it all works better when combined.

    I will also note that I have received a couple of business cards lately that were WITHOUT email addresses. These folks have received so much spam that they have moved away from email. I was flabbergasted, but what can you say? I obviously haven’t been raped by the spammers the way these folks have been. It will be interesting if the Generation Y moves back to the old school methods after getting spammed to death.

    From the sound of your article, you would probably like http://www.catalogchoice.org. I use it regularly to save the trees. I hope it catches on.

  16. Nick

    Denver-
    I thought delete was a big problem too, but when you use a service like Constant Contact and others, you can actually see when people open the message. Most campaigns I’ve assisted with run about a 75-80% open rate. And like the DoubleClick study shows, 40% of people actually want email instead of direct. Handwritten cards are definitely better than a postcard for being opened, but all of the ones I receive are a very quick thanks then a beg for my referrals, which annoys me. You are dead on that a combination is best, I’m just trying to encourage people to rely less on postcards and other forms of bulk mail that are more than likely being ignored anyway.

    All of the Gen Y’ers I know have grown up with spam and have moved to services that actually do a good job of blocking it, like GMail and others. We love our email, so I doubt that’s going away. We do join sites like Facebook and LinkedIn so our friends can contact us via their messaging systems which have been, so far, spam free for me.

    I do love CatalogChoice, but thanks for sharing that here, hopefully a few others will get on it also.

  17. Christina Ethridge

    “I’m just trying to encourage people to rely less on postcards and other forms of bulk mail that are more than likely being ignored anyway”

    This is where the discord lays – Every.single.top.agent (and I mean consistently the top) uses direct mail – strongly.

    Despite the fact that Gen Y says they prefer email or other electronic means, they still continue to respond more to direct mail. Their actions do not support their statements. I have proof of this in my business as well as other top agents business throughout the country.

    I fully understand your post, your thoughts and agree with the premise – I just know from experience, history and tracking of other top agents that direct mail is still the strongest form of lead generation (next to actual in-person prospecting).

  18. Nick

    I love how people think top agents are top agents because of direct mail. I get this all the time and when I talk to those top agents, they say it is PART of their marketing plan. Typically a small part, but a part nonetheless.

    According to the Direct Marketing Association, email delivers the highest ROI per dollar spent of any marketing vehicle – $57.25.

    In a 2003 Jupiter Research study, 80% of companies reported an increase in their email marketing activities over the previous year with 78% of these companies planning to continue the trend. At that time, they expected a 200% increase in email budgets by this year.

    In a 2005 eMarketer study, 45% of consumers considered email to be a “great way” of maintaining ongoing communications. 73% of these consumers had purchased items through emails.

    Plus the DoubleClick study that shows that 40% of people would RATHER have email than direct mail.

    This isn’t rocket science or even a Gen Y thing (none of these studies looked into age groups), A) You can help save the environment, B) STATISTICALLY your customers prefer it, C) GIVE your customers the choice, that’s what they REALLY prefer, D) Gen Y (if you care about them) respond better to email and E) It costs MUCH less.

    Prospecting is a whole different story since I don’t condone buying email lists. But get that farm area list of addresses from your local title company and make sure you put on each and every postcard or other direct mail piece the OPTION for your customers to choose email.

  19. Jeff Brown

    Nick — Christina’s experience seems to contradict, at least in part, what you’re saying. I know mine does.

    My experience with direct mailing is now entering its 21st year. With two exceptions, my mailings have been predictable winners, especially when analyzed through the microscope of ROI.

    My average mailing — 1,500-5,000 pieces — letters, not postcards.

    Cost? Roughly 60¢ to a buck apiece.

    Though two of these mailings went to 16,000 recipients, the 5,000 maximum was the practice 98% of the time.

    The ROI? I checked our private records, which tracked response and dollars earned as a direct result of mail generated calls. Each mailing accounted for $25-160,000 in commission income. I don’t know about email ROI, but I’ll trade you my buck for your $5 daily — and that was the bottom of the range.

    My overhead was and is very low, relatively speaking. I don’t have a giant staff. Oops, I don’t have a staff. I have a pretty cool office, a cell phone, laptop, and an IQ that I swear is north of 100. :)

    I wanna learn what you teach, ‘cuz I suspect you’re correct in so much of what you write. But unless you’re willing to challenge either my numbers or Christina’s, we’ll keep employing direct mail as one of the VERY effective arrows in our quiver.

    Your take on Top Producers, with all due respect, is cliche. Russ Shaw spends more on marketing than the average dozen emailing agents gross in a year. Still, with the staff that ate Phoenix his personal income is far into two commas, pre-tax. Though I never talk about my company’s income, suffice to say the guys making the big dollars are not stupid.

    The bottom line is, as an agent, how many digits are in your bank statement before they slam into the decimal point? :)

    Again, I’m bound and determined to learn what guys like you have to teach me. But when you tell guys like Russ, Christina, and me how poorly our methods are producing, we just shake our heads and make another bank deposit.

  20. Nick

    I am honestly amazed. I never once said to get rid of direct mail. It has its place. I encouraged everyone to try a great tool because it MAY allow you to better serve YOUR customers. This is typical of my classes I teach: people come because they want to learn what I teach, yet reject what I say because it is outside their comfort zone.

    There is plenty of empirical evidence (as cited throughout) that PROVES email marketing is effective, but if you don’t see it being part of your marketing strategy, that’s fine. The younger agents who will be replacing you soon enough will have a great education to build a streamlined, effective business upon and I welcome those days. Until then, I will continue to work with the “pioneers” of real estate marketing, like many others in Gen X & Y.

  21. Linda Davis

    My experience is much the same as Jeff and Christina’s. I use a mixture of email (I teach some technology classes) and direct mail but much of my success comes from farming. My numbers are certainly not as high as Russell’s but I have closed over 100 transactions every year for the last several. About 40% of those were a result of direct mail. Since, as you say above, the younger agents will be replacing us soon enough, we will be dead soon, and it probably wouldn’t make much sense to consider learning something from us, since you obviously know it all already.

  22. Nick

    Wow, who knew encouraging email marketing would hit so many people so personally :)

    I certainly hope you won’t be dead soon, but I imagine since you’re so successful in your ways and have been doing it forever that you’re close to retirement.

    I do hope the younger generations do learn a thing or two from you, but junk mail that fills our landfills and cuts down our trees is not one of them. When I was an active SCUBA instructor, my agency had a great campaign for a year that they called the Year of the Dragon (I think it coincided with the actual year of the dragon if I remember correctly). They said (and it sounded so lame at the time) that we could either jump on the dragon, even though it was scary and most wouldn’t even consider it, and let it take us into an exciting new future, or we could stand by and do what we had been doing and be eaten by the dragon. It’s a great metaphor and one that I think applies wonderfully to real estate. Why else would sites like Zillow, Truilia and Redfin exist? That’s not the way it WAS done, and they aren’t even market dominators now, but who knows what the future holds?

  23. Carole Cohen

    Cleveland is not very rural, but the kinds of marketing I employ is varied because so is everyone’s economic status (not everyone here HAS a computer and believe it or not, that includes Gen Yers). I would say ya need to think about writing absolutes…they tend not to work.

  24. Lani Anglin-Rosales

    I believe that Nick and others who are addressing generational marketing are providing ONE point of view out of many. Each road to success is paved differently, but knowing all of the tools and building supplies you’ll need to pave that path is crucial.

    No discussion about generational marketing is meant to be the infinite instruction manual of how to market to everyone, nor is it meant to alienate different generations (thus, more emphasis will be put on GenX and Boomers soon).

    My personal summary to every bit of the generational hoopla is this: respect the successful whether they’re young or old, learn about all generations so your toolbox is full when you’re creating marketing campaigns or dealing in person with clients.

  25. Jeff Bernheisel

    Yeah, some people are getting a little too defensive here. Who cares that you have a billion dollars in your checking account, or that you close hundreds of deals each year for the last 73 years. Things are changing. But, if something is working for you, keep doing it. Ride that wave as long as you can. Just don’t complain to us when it’s no longer working and you didn’t take the time to learn some of the newer techniques along the way.

  26. Linda Davis

    Let me just add one thing and then I’m done. Don’t assume that I haven’t “taken the time to learn some of the newer techniques” along the way. This old dog has embraced technology and earlier than most. I had a website in 1995. I have 3 blogs, contribute to 2 others, teach technology classes, speak on numerous technology panels and at conventions and am head of a national technology networking group called the CYBERprofessionals who have been meeting for 10 YEARS.

    BUT direct mail still works in my marketplace and I’d be a fool to give up on it.

    You all seem like nice young people who write extremely well. I’m sorry if I sound defensive. I enjoy learning from many of the young folks in my technology group but they also have learned a lot from me. We have a mutual respect for each other something that seemed to be missing here.

    We could probably learn a lot from each other.

  27. Carole Cohen

    I agree with Linda; and the only reason I am commenting again is to clarify with a different perspective. I would say that 90 percent of my business is done on line. Over half of my clients are under 30. The author of this post writes extremely well and frankly most of the comments here got so heated that the point Linda is making gets lost. While 90 percent of my business is on line and conducted by email or transaction based software or IM etc, there are people who do not partake of that technology in my market. And I would suspect others. I would love to keep learning and teaching as well. I hope we can all agree to open up a dialogue and not be on either side of a line drawn in the sand.

  28. Bob Carney

    Hmmm seems that we are trying to push one-sided success story on the rest. I don’t think its wise to only market via one medium. Your online presence should be reinforced by a print medium. I am not a fan of Newspapers nor Little magazines that print little heads and little houses that says everyone is number one.

    Direct Mail marketing has been a successful tool and shouldn’t be dismissed until the US Postal service goes out of business. As long as there are doors, even door knock has it’s place in marketing. Internet will be successful since most are beginning to prefer this unobtrusive marketing method. Just don’t abuse it.

    Just as in teaching… some people like to see what you teaching, some like to hear what you are teaching and some have to have hands on training. If you are only teaching one way, some or most in the class is missing out. You can’t assume that everyone prefers one specific method..

    As for generational differences, there are personality differences for sure and there always will. Our parents never knew anything until we got old…then we realized they knew what they are talking about…

  29. Jeff Brown

    Jeff Bernheisel — Man, talk about defensive.

    >Who cares that you have a billion dollars in your checking account, or that you close hundreds of deals each year for the last 73 years.

    I bet those dependent upon your income care.

    The difference between Russ, Christina, me, and countless others who’ve been at it for various periods of time, is that we’re actually doing it, not talking about doing, not saying we’ll be doing pretty soon, or the rest of the whole talker vs doer rhetoric. We have a track record of long term success. And yes, we’ve learned to change with the times. The only reason you know me is ‘cuz I’m a fairly well known blogger.

    I keep pounding home the point — Nick makes some pretty salient points. I think I can learn a bunch from guys like him.

    Here’s the problem. When those new to the game start telling us we can’t do what we’ve already done, or we’re not doing it the way they want us to, we’re not amused. We’ve seen this before. Folks who say money isn’t important are those who don’t have it, and don’t earn much of it. I’ve worked very hard for my success. So don’t mistake having another viewpoint, one of empirical fact, as being defensive.

    None of this is personal to folks like Christina, Russ, Me, or guys like Brian Brady, another huge doer.

    That said, when we’ve been batting over .300 in the bigs for decades we think we might actually know a thing or two. Until you’ve been there and done that, how ’bout a little respect from those who’re still working their way up to getting their first major league at bat?

    I listen to pretty much whatever Lani has to say, as I respect her knowledge. She also shows respect for my knowledge and experience. I’ll bet she’s learned less from me than I’ve learned from her.

    And for the record — my main partner in crime is — a GenY. You don’t wanna know his thoughts on all this. :)

  30. Jeff Bernheisel

    My post wasn’t defensive. I don’t have to brag about what I’ve accomplished. Or belittle anyone because they aren’t making as much money as I do. This isn’t a pissing match about who’s better than who and frankly, I don’t give a crap about any of that.

  31. Jeff Brown

    Still talking and not doing. At least you’re consistent.

  32. Benjamin Bach

    @Balwdguy, I’d bet Josh is a huge old school proponent.

    I think it comes with the investment territory – as much as I love my blog (and the leverage it brings me), at the end of the day we’re doing analysis with something called a pen, and on something called paper. Revolutionary!

  33. Christina Ethridge

    Nick –

    I absolutely think you are right on in your original post – that we need to embrace new methods and respect how our clients prefer to be connected with.

    What I take issue with (and you aren’t doing this but all too many others do) are those that try to tell me that such and such doesn’t work and the only way to do something is such and such way. Believe me, I see some of me in this, it’s nothing new.

    But, I continually read it and hear it – direct mail is ‘the past’. It doesn’t work anymore. The web is the future. If you get on the web, you’ll dominate. Well, prior to getting on the web with our own website in 1995, we dominated our market (well, we were in the top 20 agents in our market). The web has had a huge impact on our business, but not in the way commonly preached. Instead, the web became a wonderful online, interactive ‘brochure’ of ‘inventory’ and services that supplemented our in person programs & presentations and supplemented our direct mail campaigns. Yes, we get clients from our web presence that have had no other contact from any other method we use. But, those are much smaller than one might think. What the web has done for us is legitimize us, made us stronger, made us more knowledgeable in the eyes of the prospective client.

    This is my point. When websites started becoming all the rage, we were already there. We embraced it and gained business and presence for it. And we heard all of the ‘you don’t need anything else just the web’ people pontificating their beliefs. Thing is, most of those people didn’t do much with the business and aren’t even in the business anymore.

    Jeff makes a huge point – yes, we need to watch, listen and learn from everyone no matter who they are or what they do. But, the people I will put more weight to their word are those that have a proven track record over a period of time. No matter what level my business is at, I am always watching others who are consistent and consistently growing their businesses (even some that are at a ‘lower’ level – for want of a better word – then I am). But, I apply more weight to those that have achieved more than me – they know what they are doing. They are doing something right and no matter what is new today, they’ve continued to achieve their success.

    This is why I don’t really give much weight to those that say 50% or 80% or 100% of their business is from blogging. Why? Because their business is less than 20 (maybe 30) transactions a year. I’m not interested in 20 transactions a year. I’m interested in going up the ladder and breaking my ceiling. Blogging and the web alone will not do that for me. I need something stronger. With direct mail still continuing to increase my business, I will continue to use it. Perhaps at some point it will plateau, but it hasn’t yet. This tells me that all those who are saying ‘direct mail is dead or doesn’t work’ aren’t using it, or are not using it correctly and consistently. See, direct mail is boring. It’s not ‘new and exciting’. Funny thing, the tried and true methods often are boring.

    I get the whole ‘help the environment’ idea. I get it, so when more people are reading and responding to my electronic marketing then I will consider the change. Until then, I will continue to add to my direct mail marketing every single month.

  34. Cyndee Haydon

    Nick – we do much less direct mailings now as well. When we do we make it personal and to people we know and have a relationship – it’s no longer our method for mass marketing. Enjoyed your thoughts – P.S. Loved the comment about the nice office – yes, times they are a changing!!

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