Huh?
From a press release by ForSaleByOwner.com:
ForSaleByOwner.com today announced that it has become the nation’s first “by owner” real estate website to enable home sellers to advertise their home on Realtor.com without appearing on a local Multiple Listing Service (MLS). This new direct access to Realtor.com follows the May 2008 settlement between the U.S. Department of Justice and the National Association of Realtors.
“The DOJ-NAR settlement benefited consumers by giving them access to Realtor.com without the expensive cost of a commission fee,” said Greg Healy, Vice President of Operations at ForSaleByOwner.com. “We’re proud to be the first to offer this new consumer-friendly access to Realtor.com. In today’s challenging housing market, sellers need cost-saving ways to sell their homes.”
“Our typical home seller saves nearly $13,000 in commission and this new access to Realtor.com will help even more people sell their home without using the services of a real estate agent,” added Healy.
Realtor.com is a popular real estate website that attracts nearly five million monthly visits. The new Realtor.com Showcase Listing service from ForSaleByOwner.com will allow sellers to have their homes marketed on Realtor.com, and interested buyers will be able to directly contact these sellers.
(my emphasis in bold italics)
Someone explain it to me like I’m 3 years old
Clearly I’m missing something. Realtor.com is the “Official Site of the National Association of Realtors”. And now said official site is allowing folks to do an end-around on Realtors.
I’ve read and re-read the DOJ / NAR settlement Mr. Healy references in his press release as the reason why this is being done. I’m no attorney, obviously, but I completely missed this ramification of said settlement. Assuming it’s true the the DOJ has forced this upon us, I am only left with one question….
Why didn’t the NAR explain what was about to happen? It’s been almost six months since the settlement was reached. Couldn’t someone at the NAR have said by now, “Oh, by the way this means that your Official Site will soon begin allowing unrepresented sellers and buyers to advertise on your Official Site, completely circumnavigating the needs for your professional services.”
Why am I left to read this news in a biased press release? Where is the NARs release on this?
OK, so that’s three questions. But I don’t get it. Someone please explain it to me like I’m three years old.
UPDATE: Scott Brunner, CEO of the Virginia Association of Realtors, got wind of this and sent Laurie Janick, NAR General Counsel an email seeking clarification. Ms. Janick’s response is below (more details at VARBuzz).
Please reassure your members that there are no unlisted properties on Realtor.com.
We still cannot figure out the basis for the outrageous claims being made by ForSaleByOwner.com in this press release. No relationship exists between that entity and Realtor.com. Listings displayed on Realtor.com continue to be provided by the MLSs, and contrary to the headline, there is NO “agent free access to Realtor.com”.
UPDATE #2 – IMPORTANT!:
Please read the NAR’s official news brief regarding this matter, as well as the blog post by Hilary Marsh, Managing Director, Realtor.org. The NAR reputes much of what Greg Healy, the Vice President of Operations at ForSaleByOwner.com, said in the press release.
Summary from Hilary Marsh:
Contrary to what the ForSaleByOwner.com news release says….
1) They are NOT in a partnership with REALTOR.com
2) The settlement between NAR and the DOJ did NOT force REALTOR.com to accept FSBO property listings
3) Properties from sellers not represented by Realtors will NOT appear on REALTOR.com
4) MLSs still get to decide which listings to distribute to REALTOR.com
NAR has demanded a retraction by ForSaleByOwner.com.
Photo Credit: Valerie Everett
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Consumerism, Geo-mapping columnist
Marketing columnist
Jay, I think this is just a spin on limited service listings. I’ve got links and quotes over at the FBS Blog showing that a broker is still involved and that Showcase Listings on R.com are only for REALTORS. http://blog.flexmls.com/?p=476
Appalling.
Once again, we are done in by the people we pay to safeguard our interests – for a smashing fee, no doubt.
My Realtor.com account manager has been trying to renew expired featured homes with me. He never mentioned this to me. ??
I do support homeowner’s rights to sell without a real estate agent or Realtor. I totally do not understand why the official site of Realtors would contain any listings from any source other than a Realtor.
Interesting that this was announced after the NAR meeting in Orlando.
Yes, I need an explanation also….just like I am 3 years old. Spell it out clearly and simply, please. Anyone?
Did Realtor.com just become an oxymoron?
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I’m killing my realtor.com accounts today.
Again we are paying for something we are not getting. This is just the frosting on the cake..I need a 2 year explanation!
Thanks Michael for posting that.
I guess though that I still really don’t get it. If the contacts go directly to the seller, what is in it for the “broker affiliate” that “lists” the FSBO on R.com, and why does R.com allow a non-MLS/unrepresented seller listing to appear on their site? (well, other than R.com getting the enhanced listing fees from this “broker affiliate” with ByFSBO.com)
The worst part is that the press release feels like its laughing in the face of NAR (probably just what I read into it).
I am fine with the idea that some people will sell their houses without an agent (I wish they wouldn’t as a professional who works hard to help them), but to force an association of dues paying members to accept their listings onto a site that they pay for just seems a bit wrong to me. I hope they at least give them the same pricing structure to enhance their listings. I’d hate to find out that they negotiated a lesser fee for it.
Come on man?
Do you really think that the NAR wouldn’t wait until the last possible minute to announce this and avoid the massive shitstorm that would ensue? They aren’t even close to staffed to handle that.
Plus, everyone with even a moderate web presence has known this was going to happen for months, even years.
It was inevitable. It’s like eTrade, etc. did to stockbrokers.
@Michael Wurzer – I don’t understand the article that Jay quoted above, where the statment is made that FSBO can appear on Realtor.com without appearing on a local MLS. If this were a spin on a limited service lisitng, then wouldn’t the lisitng appear on the local MLS?
What part of this did I miss?
I’m with Jay on this one…can someone please tell what the $!@%! is going on?!
I can’t say I have all the answers but from the ForSaleByOwner.com site and R.com’s FAQ, I’m pretty sure this is just a clever twist by ForSaleByOwner.com on a limited service listing. The way they get around the MLS is through the “Showcase” feature of R.com, which, I believe, allows entry of the listing directly into R.com (importantly, though, I don’t KNOW that’s how it works, so hopefully someone else can confirm). The next question is whether the “broker affiliate” is violating MLS rules by taking the listing and not entering it into the MLS.
Regardless of the issues above, I’m quite confident that ForSaleByOwner.com is trying to pull one over on everyone by claiming this is related to the VOW litigation. It’s not.
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There must be a logical explanation to this and I look forward to hearing it. In the meantime, I will hold off on re-upping my realtor.com account.
Can someone confirm how a listing can be uploaded to Realtor.com directly instead of through MLS?
Ouch – Doesn’t having “For Sale by Owner” under cut real estate agents? I thought the NAR was supposed to ONLY serve the best interests of its members.
That’s “evil” as in Microsoft making its user miserable for profit “evil”
Waiting for NAR’s SM guru to make a grand entrance for explanation on this or did they just sally up. Waiting…Waiting, nothing. That’s what I thought!
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Micheal’s explanation makes a lot of sense, that FSBO.com is spinning to make it sound like a major coup. And if the brokers take the listings as open listings or under some other non-exclusive contract, they would not be obligated to go through the MLS.
So does that mean they will remove articles like this from their website???
http://www.realtor.com/Basics/Sell/Why/Fsbo.asp
Why exactly would any Realtor pay fees to be a member of a non-protected club that now anybody can join by going thru FSBO.com?
Lisa – I agree that Michael’s take is plausible. And if that is the case, then in my opinion FSBO.com isn’t just “spinning”, they are flat out lying.
So this beg’s another question. Are these really FSBO listings? My take is this — if the contact info on the R.com page leads directly to the seller as FSBO.com claims, and the listings aren’t in the MLS with a brokerage cooperation agreement, then yep, that’s a FSBO listing.
So then, what about this:
“3. No “For Sale by Owner” properties may ever appear on REALTOR.com.”
That comes straight from Realtor.org “key provisions” in the R.com/NAR operating agreement… (http://www.realtor.org/realtor.....nDocument)
Great, does this mean we can post our listings for free on fsbo.com? I also think it is great that we will have all of the FSBO’s in one place so that we can try and get their business. Yahoooooooooooo!
I pay (ahem, paid. Won’t happen again, not after this) for enhanced listings; there is no way to upload a listing as far as I can tell, you can only add details to your own listings that are fed through via the MLS…
I credit myself as being a reasonably intelligent person, and I did have my coffee today too…and I still can’t grasp this.
I complained and received this:
Kim,
It is totally not true. We have demanded that fsbo.com publish a retraction. We and Realtor.com are talking with them about that now. If they refuse, we are going to publish an article to set the record straight. We have already informed the media who received fsbo’s news release.
Thanks for your comments.
Lucien
Lucien Salvant
Managing Director
NAR Public Affairs
500 New Jersey Ave., NW
Washington DC 20001
ph: 202/383-1176
cell: 202/256-3707
Kim,
Thanks for the update!
I support FSBO rights. I have a big problem with misrepresentation.
Deb
“I’m killing my realtor.com accounts today.”
What needs to be killed is realtor.com.
As it is, I can put a FSBO on Realtor.com via a limited services listing with a broker, but the seller’s contact info wasn’t allowed.
Ugh… Good point Bob. Thank goodness I haven’t renewed. This kind of stuff just makes the MRIS news Jim Duncan reported recently that much mo betta.
I would click **agree** with first Jay and then with Bob on this…
Yes. This is blatant. Yes (IMO) they meant to do it. Now, as they are getting caught red handed, they are trying to retract to save face.
Is it plausible that R.com did not know about this and that FSBO.com was jamming them? Somebody had to accept the checks and cash them. That somebody had to know that this was NOT a REALTOR that was advertising.
That somebody should be gone.
Is it possible that NAR didn’t know. I think so.
THE ONLY TRUE VOTE WE HAVE IS TO ALL STOP PAYING THE EXTORTION FEE TO R.com. PERIOD. Voting with our feet is the only way we win.
I’d kinda like to know “who knew what and when they knew it.” And I’d like that “transparency” that everybody’s craving on this one as well.
Off to give you some more links and exposure to this one, Jay. Nice post.
I just called Realtor.com for the official response. After being passed up the food chain and being placed on hold 3 different times, an operator at Realtor.com named ‘John’ stated:
“No comment. I will not confirm or deny the story as reported by ForSaleByOwner.com. We only received the news about 30 minutes ago. We will have an official response in the next two days.”
LOL! The irony is thick and juicy!
VARbuzz has a quote from NAR General Counsel addressing the issue. Apparently, NAR had nothing to do with the announcement:
http://varbuzz.com/fsbos-on-re.....t-so-fast/
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“I’m killing my realtor.com accounts today.”
What needs to be killed is realtor.com.
cause = effect
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I haven’t used enhanced listings for four years now, but they were calling me yesterday to see if I wanted enhanced listings and a spotlight ad. I said no- but I was thinking about the enhanced listing.
Today – NO WAY am I giving them any of my hard earned money until they provide some answers.
“Kim,
It is totally not true. We have demanded that fsbo.com publish a retraction. We and Realtor.com are talking with them about that now. If they refuse, we are going to publish an article to set the record straight. We have already informed the media who received fsbo’s news release.
Thanks for your comments.
Lucien”
Why respond by publishing an article that no one will read, especially not FSBOs? I would hope for legal action if this truly a violation by ForSaleByOwner. Don’t we pay NAR enough to afford legal counsel on important issues like this?
@cause and effect – good point Benn.
Cancelling our enhanced listings with R.com is the only vote we have.
Think of the timing of this (right after NAR). Looks like it was pretty planned to me. Seems like we need to do some planning of our own and Take Back Our R from those morons using the REALTOR trademark to market FSBO properties.
@the gentleman from BiggerPockets…how would you feel if your trademark (Bigger Pockets) got trampled like the REALTOR trademark just did? Hmmm? Not so ironic then, no?
The President of Realtor.com, Errol Samuelson, called me at 5:20 this evening to personally clarify this situation. Politely, he explained that Realtor.com has no intention of listing ForSaleByOwner.com listings on their website. Realtor.com will only allow brokered MLS listings to be entered into their database. This FSBO.com+Realtor.com press release is a misconstrued hoax. What appears to have happened is a discount broker (or collection of brokers) made an agreement to feed listings from ForSaleByOwner.com onto the Realtor.com website by manipulating the flexible rules of certain MLSs, which allow out-of-area brokers to list such things as vacation properties.
Realtor.com will be requesting an issue of retraction from ForSaleByOwner.com as a result.
It’s a hoax. Straight from the horse’s mouth.
I checked the fsbo website and typed in my zip code. For the Silver package that is supposed to include the enchanced listing on Realtor.com the fee was $599.
I have heard rumors about this swirling around and really didn’t think they would do this to us.
Boy was I wrong. It’s all about the money, honey. I am taking a stand and refusing to pay for enhanced listings. It is so sad that the general public is so used to going to Realtor.com to look up listings and we are almost forced to cave in.
I need a good script for handling objections from sellers.
T,Z,C,FD, etc… are all loving this.
Thats a good article to read before I pay my dues. I think I will do the installment plan as I look for a way out of the association. I think it’s time to come up with a new association for real estate agents that is worth paying for.
@Heather – I started a pretty good script over a year ago. http://tinyurl.com/5h8uad
I will add to that with some more info and shoot you an email. Unless R.com is DOMINANT on the serps or actually generates provable LOCAL buyer traffic, why do sellers NEED them?
@Brad- you are correct. It makes them look better because they are 3rd party listings agregators just like R.com…and they aren’t charging for the privilege of taking advantage of the REALTOR (my opinion of course). They probably are laughing.
@Mark-
Straight from the horse’s mouth would be Errol paying AG a visit and saying it himself. High time to speak up IMO, Mr. Samuelson. This is a big enough blog to deserve your attention.
Jay, been reading all this buzz for several hours today. I stopped enhanced listings two years ago and it has not hurt my business at all. I never got any calls from it anyway.
Unfortunately, our own trade org is not advocating for us, the way RDC has always been run is a sham, TAKING our listings and selling them back to us with Enhanced Listings.
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Guilty until proven innocent…
As much as I hate realtor.com, they really should have been given a chance to defend themselves from this.
Unfortunately, it’s such a ridiculous system; that I fully understand why everyone assumed this was a fact as opposed to reckless PR attempt. I am sure the NAR attorneys will stay on this.
“What appears to have happened is a discount broker (or collection of brokers) made an agreement to feed listings from ForSaleByOwner.com onto the Realtor.com website by manipulating the flexible rules of certain MLSs, which allow out-of-area brokers to list such things as vacation properties”
So what is to keep this practice from happening anyway? Is R.com planning on policing the discount brokers to ensure that fsbo’s don’t slip through? Somehow, I think not.
This is a perfect example of why real estate professionals should take their marketing dollars and invest them in their own websites and internet presence. If we don’t take control of our business, somebody else will – and they will sell it back to us!
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@Guilty until proven innocent…
wreckless until proven otherwise.
@wreckless until proven otherwise…
worthless until proven valuable
As others have pointed out earlier today, REALTOR.com will not be carrying FSBO listings:
http://narblog1.realtors.org/m.....id_is.html
lol
I will be making sure that we will not be renewing our enhanced listings this year. I’ve had enough from Realtor.com . They are not representing our best interests!
Eric, et al are correct, the only vote you have are your dollars. Why pay another cent to a site that continues to commit extortion? Fees without explanation? Pages that don’t generate leads. Featured listings that aren’t seen. Go to http://www.FireRealtor.com, then Fire Realtor.com. I’m tired of seeing the professionals of this industry being treated like a herd of sheep.
Also, the more maelstrom and distress we can cause for Realtor will lead to a bigger lawsuit from Realtor.com against ForSaleByOwner.com. Firing realtor.com right now could serve two purposes: 1) send a message to realtor.com and 2) put forsalebyowner.com out of business from the damages and lawsuit.
I’m not a radical individual (typically), but this is just another example of Realtor.com dropping the ball and not staying on top of its industry.
Am I the only one that thinks Realtor.com/.org staff shuld have GoogleAlerts for “National Association of Realtors” and “Realtor.com”?
Come on!
Michael
I stopped the membership in the National org. many years ago (when I was first in public office) but prior to that Iwas a faithful member of local State and National. I used to do some speaking for them as well. Fifteen years ago I felt the entity was more interested in itself than its membership. I still feel that they are the most ineffectual of all the large groups of their kind. They have not done well for their members for as long as I can remember. I am not sure exactly where they are in this current debacle, but when the dust sttles I would not be “amazed” to find that some “Nose of the camel was in the tent”
I have apologized to Errol publicly on the Bloodhound Blog and I will do so here.
Do I PROFOUNDLY disagree with the business model of R.com – YES. But one thing that I do not do is KNOWINGLY pass on lies. And that (apparently) is what happened here.
My apologies to you Errol, for that. We can debate the issues and what is good / bad for the individual on merit. (And I am sure we will many times in the forseeable future. But I will not knowingly pass on mis-information without a personal public apology.
Here’s yours.
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The NAR bashing is tiresome…especially when it is instigated by lies. There are way more reasons than not to be proud of our Association. And for the few reasons we’re not, we need to work together to correct them and not undermine our collective credibility by whining incessantly about it and making it look like that is all there is to us. How about sprinkling some positive feedback out there across the RE.net to balance the picture?
I stopped the enhanced listings with Realtor.com over a year ago. I also feel that it’s wrong that we have to pay to see our own listings “enhanced”. Ever since the advent of Realtor.com, utilizing them has been almost shoved down our throats. It is not an inexpensive service.
I was truly shocked when I read this announcement yesterday and wouldn’t be surprised if Realtor.com did something like this.
Our fees are very high at a time when many of us can barely eke out a living. Do we need more competition than we already have?
Is Realtor.com and NAR going to dispute this “hoax” announcement in print?
Sure, the FSBO guys lied. Whatever. I expect that NAR will justifiably light into them. (At least) two thoughts –
1 – @hilarymarsh and @pamela_kabati, as well as Laurie Janik via VarBuzz provided pretty quick responses to soothe the blogs’ anger.
2 – That we all so readily believed that this was accurate speaks tremendous volumes about the credibility of NAR/RDC/Move.
They should be concerned about that perception, but I doubt that their actions will reflect that they are aware of this disconnect between the members (customers providing the content for RDC and the respective corporations.
Here’s a tiny update on the situation from NAR over at VARbuzz http://varbuzz.com/fsbos-on-re.....t-so-fast/
Realtor.com had better get ahead of this and clarify whehter this is information or misinformation. I want to hear something from my local association.
Just wanted to clear up some confusion – FSBO.com is NOT the same as ForSaleByOwner.com which is the company that issued the controversial press release. We are a different company/website and are not affiliated with them in any way.
Here’s something from off of the ForSaleByOwner.com site. It gives more details about the service.
http://www.forsalebyowner.com/.....-guarantee
There’s more info about the service if you go to the ForSaleByOwner.com website. Look at the Realtor.com info button.
Jim Duncan “2 – That we all so readily believed that this was accurate speaks tremendous volumes about the credibility of NAR/RDC/Move.”
Now that’s the sad truth.
From ForSaleByOwner.com’s website “no need to be listed in your local MLS or work with local agents” to have property showcased on Realtor.com
(see screenshot here)
http://tinyurl.com/5jh4lh
Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick….
I don’t know, people. Things are gettin’ kinda’ creepy out there.
Tom
I CAN TELL YOU HOW THIS WORKS! I have been researching this and I know how this realtor.com showcased forsalebyowner.com package works.
First forsalebyowner.com sends the listing to a CA broker at http://elist.me then she places the listing in her local CA MLS. Now lets say the listing is in CT. The claim is that you offer a 1% co-broke, but what CA agent is looking for CT homes on the local MLS? NONE. this is how they can say you dont pay any commission.
Basicly they are using one broker to list all the homes in CA MLS. They will show on realtor.com, they set the fsbo seller up with a extension/voicemail on the toll free number, they forward all emails to the seller…
Walla! forsalebyowner on the realtor.com site.
The BIG question is “is this legal” for a CA broker to list a CT home? I am looking into this right now. If so, that’s the loophole that makes all this work.
Amazing how ForSaleByOwner.com can issue a single press release of hoax and lies, tailored to do so much damage to Realtor.com by inflaming its mouth-before-brain customer-base. You’d think this was a Presidential election campaign move…
Fred – Yes, that’s it. But we can only list/sell houses within the state we’re licensed.
Keep in mind that corporate sites like REMAX.com, Coldwell Banker, etc all pull the listings for their sites from Realtor.com.
@ Vicky, There are a few loopholes that apply to a few states where it can be done. I don’t know that it does or does not apply to the situation Fred referenced.
Deborah – I guess there always is.
Its all about free markets and giving the consumer choice, at the end of the day agents and private sellers websites can work side by side to improve services for the clients. This will be done as both sides will want to offer the best and most affordable services. Bravo to Realtor.com they have seen the light
Realtor.com does not allow FSBO’s. Through a manipulation of the system and exploitation of loopholes, there may have been some FSBO’s appear on Realtor.com. The bravo wishes from Little House are in error. The agreement between NAR and the parent of Realtor.com prohibits placement of FSBO listings. Since Realtor.com does such a poor job for consumers and Realtors in delivering transparent data at inexpensive rates, NAR should be looking at alternative partnerships with which to license the Realtor.com name.
Why does ForSaleByOwnerdotcom still have the option for an ad on Realtor.com on their website?
Another company eListdotme has 751 listings on the Realtor.com site with big old featured ads. All FSBO? The brokerage is in CA but the listings I saw were NJ, NY, OR, WI, IN, OH, FL…. Not represented by a local real estate company, don’t show up in the local MLS but they show up mixed in with the rest of the properties that are
elist.me IS the exclusive broker that works with forsalebyowner.com. They place the listings on the CA MLS as “out of area” listings, bypassing the local MLS and agents to get on realtor.com.